You may not need an electric vehicle after all...

[mikesim]

An interesting approach in reducing the carbon footprint of vehicles without the dramatic and costly steps as promoted by the politicians. This makes much more sense to me than to dive headfirst into the potential drawbacks of EV mandates. This approach allows us to reduce our emissions while allowing us to make responsible choices using engineering reality vs wishful thinking.

You May Not Need an Electric Vehicle After All | RealClearEnergy


Mike

 

[RedNigel]

If I ever get to buy an EV it wont be to save the planet. I want one because they are cool as hell! How else can you buy a car with over 500 HP with every Foot-pound of torque available in an instant?
Never mind no fuel, no coolant, no belts, no hoses, no oil, no seals

 

[RedLdr1]

Never mind no fuel, no coolant, no belts, no hoses, no oil, no seals

Well...I hate to disappoint you but EVs do have all of the above. The coolant system in my Kona, (radiator, fan, special antifreeze, and hoses), cools both the engine components and the main battery. There are drive train parts that require lube and seal replacement just like a regular ICEmobile. I consider recharging to be "fuel" so even that one is out. The instant on power is fun though.

Here is a picture of my Kona being refueled.

 

[Yoda]

Bravo, RedLdr1.
For many years. I have referred to EV’s as “remote emissions vehices” NOT “zero emissions vehicles”.

Facilities which produce electricity are typically “out of sight, out of mind”. They all produce some type of emissions, with the only exception being hydro-power plants.

I will stand in line to buy an electric motor vehicle that CREATES its own electricity from some type of fuel on board, ie hydrogen.

However, current “state of the art” storage of electricity in any type of battery is woefully inefficient. The energy density is barely a fraction of hydrocarbon fuel storage carried in an ICE vehicle.

 

[Yoda]

And, worst of all, if there is any type of fire on board your EV, just stand back.
Most fire departments are typically powerless to control a lithium battery fire.

 

[RedLdr1]

And, worst of all, if there is any type of fire on board your EV, just stand back. Most fire departments are typically powerless to control a lithium battery fire.

I've read that an average ICEmobile vehicle fire takes ~2,000 gallons of water to extinguish. The average EV fire takes ~10,000 gallons of water to suppress. The term suppress is used as EV battery packs have a nasty habit of reigniting after they have been "extinguished" sometimes days later. I have a friend who is a Captain in the Fire Department and he hates EV call outs.

EV's have a long way to go before they can be "apples to apples" compared to an ICE vehicle. Personally I think hybrids are a better solution and are much easier to deploy than a EV. We bought the Kona to see what all the "buzz" was about. We like our Kona but there is no way it is cheaper than an ICE vehicle when you factor in all the costs.

 

[mikesim]

I read an article in the last several days about a rapidly growing movement in many areas of the country that are not only saying no to solar and wind turbine installations, but hell no! Many of the farmers interviewed said that the solar panels were a waste of productive agricultural land and surprisingly to me they weren't very keen on wind turbines either. I thought that they would use the rental of their land for wind turbine use as a steady source of income but they aren't happy with them. Offshore wind turbines are now almost a dead issue since there have been a huge increase in whale deaths on the east coast and neither coastal areas want them near tourist sites. I haven't read anywhere that they could attribute the whale mortality to the wind turbines so that may be a red herring (no pun intended)

Mike

 

[Camelot]

The red-state backlash against electric vehicles is incoherent — and gaining steam

Wyoming Republicans proposed a bill to phase out EV sales.

www.theverge.com

 

[DirtFlier]

The anti-movement against solar farms is strong in rural OH and it seems mindless to me. They don't ruin the landscape and most of the time they are barely visible plus there is no vibration such as caused by wind turbines. At least from my viewpoint way too much land is already devoted to growing corn which is the dominant crop in America.

 

[Camelot]

The U.S. is the only first world freedom loving country that is actively trying its best to devolve into a third world country by ignoring facts and science.

 

[basketcase]

Come September my Dad would be 100 years old were he still living. I recall as a child hearing he and my uncles talking about when they got electricity and their first telephones in rural Mississippi, USA. Per his word, after WWII he left farming and moved to work in town "because I was tired of bathing in a wash-tub." Dad would be fascinated by cell phones and text messaging, but would likely decline to bother with learning to use a computer. My children, on the other hand, cannot conceive of life without all of the above plus many other such things. And most of the developed world is completely dependent on all of it.

To my thinking the answers are about balance and sustainability. Unless a war destroys our infrastructure so that we go back to pre-WWI agrarian living, we will never completely do away with fossil fuels or our ways of using them. Likewise, electricity is useful in countless ways, but it is not the be all to do all.

My Jayco travel trailer has a solar panel on it that keeps the 12v battery charged. "Shore power" is always a factor when the wife and I are looking at campgrounds, but the refrigerator and the propane fired furnace will both operate using the 12 volt system. When hooked up to a 30 amp connection the converter in the system automatically manages the electrical feed so the solar panel is switched out of the system.

My gas powered, full-sized, 400 hp truck pulls the camper comfortably. While I'm sure some aspiring futurist has a concept on paper, I cannot envision the EV truck that would be necessary to tow a camper, much less the EV system needed to power an 18-wheeler or a railroad locomotive. The whole EV thing, as it appears to me, is as idealistic as it is short-sighted and unbalanced.

Can I live without the camper? Of course. Well, unless a TEOTWAWKI event makes it my permanent living quarters... but that is an entirely different topic.

 

[junglejim]

The simplest, easiest, and immediate solution begins with reducing our power consumption. Our country in general seems unwilling to do that. Try turning up the AC setting and turn down the heat settings. We are quite wasteful. We don’t consolidate our trips for shopping very well.

I recently saw a person leave his car running in a parking lot for 4 hours so his dog (which shouldn’t have been there) was comfortable. Our recreational activities are quite consumptive. We have “wake boats” now designed to make big waves. Hundreds of hp and a ton of ballast water on board in order to make big waves which are destroying the shoreline.

OK So everybody else’s activities are excessively consumptive and environmentally damaging (except mine of course). The bottom line here is that humans can’t live on this planet without leaving footprints of some sort. We just need to be a little smarter about what we do.

 

[Chucksklrst]

When the politicians, and the Hollywood crowd and the climate change alarmist start reducing their footprint and start setting and showing the example, by moving into a 1500 sq foot home, have one E-car to transport themselves instead of a convoy of Gas guzzling SUVs, not use private aircraft to jet set around the globe, then I might try and reduce my tiny footprint also. Until then I am going to let my finances determine how comfortable in my life, I will be.

 

[Camelot]

For me it’s all about my actions and what I do. I don’t need a role model to be green to show me the way. For me it’s about saving money, it never gets cold enough for me to run heat and so far this year no home a/c needed. Walk or mass transit when possible, all good for my health and frankly allows me to stack up more cash for retirement an early retirement.

 

[mikesim]

For me it’s all about my actions and what I do. I don’t need a role model to be green to show me the way. For me it’s about saving money, it never gets cold enough for me to run heat and so far this year no home a/c needed. Walk or mass transit when possible, all good for my health and frankly allows me to stack up more cash for retirement an early retirement.

I will let Chuck speak for himself, but I don't think he was asking for a role model as much as he was condemning their hypocrisy. JMHO.

Mike

 

[ST1100Y]

What makes me sour about this 'global marketing campaign': the sole intention that everyone is supposed to buy new stuff... which is far from environmental friendly...
Yeah, they only want out best... our money...

 

[mikesim]

For those who are interested, here is an article from IEEE about a recent hydrogen development. You will note that unlike our politicians, the engineers are recommending that studies determining the scalability of the process be conducted first. Engineering reality comes before wishful thinking.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells Find Their Groove - IEEE Spectrum

Mike

 

[Coyote Chris]

I agree with Toyota but at the end of the day, most Americans don't want eco. They want big SUVs and Big pickups and big fifth wheels, etc. WA just introduced a 50 cent a gallon carbon tax and no one flinched. It would take a much larger gas increase to change vehicle choices in the US and politicians won't touch that third rail here. The guy who rammed through the carbon tax is not running again. Large fuel cost increases also make everything more expensive. Hybrids offer some hope but with an ever increasing population, and more vehicles, I don't see a magic bullet in what's left of my life. Only lots of coal trains in MT and WY. I am not against EVs, but even Japan, who is having issues with Fukashima, is looking at next gen nuclear power plants. As well we all should. And next gen batteries.

 

[DirtFlier]

As far as I know, France has used nuclear power plants to supply the vast majority of its electrical needs and has safely done so for many decades. Here we have an aversion to using nuclear and most such plants have been shut down 30-40 years ago.

 

[mikesim]

I agree with Toyota but at the end of the day, most Americans don't want eco. They want big SUVs and Big pickups and big fifth wheels, etc. WA just introduced a 50 cent a gallon carbon tax and no one flinched. It would take a much larger gas increase to change vehicle choices in the US and politicians won't touch that third rail here. The guy who rammed through the carbon tax is not running again. Large fuel cost increases also make everything more expensive. Hybrids offer some hope but with an ever increasing population, and more vehicles, I don't see a magic bullet in what's left of my life. Only lots of coal trains in MT and WY. I am not against EVs, but even Japan, who is having issues with Fukashima, is looking at next gen nuclear power plants. As well we all should. And next gen batteries.

About your carbon tax, I just read yesterday that Washington has now overtaken California with the highest gas prices.

Mike