Harley sales

[mikesim]

Mike,

The AMA has traditionally opposed loud pipes going waaaay back to "Muffler Mike". However in the more recent past the AMA has consistently opposed laws regarding loud pipes as discriminatory towards motorcyclists. They also oppose requiring aftermarket exhausts to have a EPA approval for street bikes. Personally I find both these positions hypocritical. The classic example of this is the AMA opposed California's SB435 regulating aftermarket exhausts and requiring an EPA compliance stamp on aftermarket exhausts. That was back in 2010 and the aftermarket industry had to change to comply...or lose a large chunk of its market. Another example is when Denver tried to pass a noise ordinance in 2007. The AMA response (See Here) included this zinger: "To understand the restrictions being imposed on motorcyclists, Moreland asked car drivers to consider the impact if Denver city officials had instead required stock mufflers on cars, making it illegal for Denver drivers to buy replacement exhaust systems from companies like Midas or Meineke." "That would force everyone who drives a Ford to return to the Ford dealer and get the exact replacement muffler every time their exhaust system wore out," he noted. Really??? :rolleyes1: Don't you sell compliant exhaust parts for my Ford at your store?

In my opinion giving out grants for sound meters to a few local jurisdictions is nothing but a kiss and tell photo op while ignoring the real issue. And that real issue is already impacting all of us with closures and other restrictions.

As my signature shows I'm a AMA lifer... The way it has went over the last few years I'd gladly give up my membership if the AMA would return my money...prorated of course.:wink: Since they won't return my money I won't give up my right to tell them they are idiots and do not represent the views of most of their members. Their declining membership numbers also speak volumes...truly a "Rebel Without A Clue" scenario....

I think the AMA is more against the heavy hand of government moreso than an advocate of loud pipes.... but you can interpret it any way you wish.

Mike

 

[NoNTnow]

but you can interpret it any way you wish.

Advocate, not so much...but by their actions they are an active, willing participant and an enabler. Their "support" of the SAE J2825 “Measurement of Exhaust Sound Pressure Levels of Stationary On-Highway Motorcycles,” Standard (Overview Here) should give them some credibility. But then after helping create a Standard, that only applies to street ridden motorcycles, this is the position they announced:

“The J2825 test allows jurisdictions around the nation, struggling with complaints about excessive motorcycle sound, to set reasonable limits in accordance with the SAE standard,” said Moreland. “While the AMA supports the establishment of the SAE J2825 standard in America’s cities, towns and communities, we will continue to fight efforts that single out motorcycles while still permitting excessive sound from other sources, such as loud cars and trucks, booming car stereos, poorly maintained generators, whining leaf blowers, and the like."

So after helping create the Standard, specifically for street ridden motorcycles, the AMA doesn't want it enforced as it would "single out motorcycles". I fully understand the motorcycle discrimination "angle" Moreland is implying, I've already seen it in motorcycle bans caused by loud pipes. I guess we'll have to create "Standards" for "loud cars and trucks, booming car stereos, poorly maintained generators, whining leaf blowers, and the like" before the AMA says we can enforce J2825. Really? IMNSHO this just shows how the AMA "talks the talk" but refuses to take any significant action on their own and actively impedes those who are trying to take action. In a word hypocritical.

That's how I "interpret" it...based on the evidence which is rather damning to say the least. If you have some other info, besides publicity photo ops giving away test sets, I'd love to see it. I might even use in my next letter to the AMA! :smile:

 

[Coyote Chris]

Come on down Chris. I would love to show you around.
My home is humble but I can find you a bed.

Macka

Thanks! Can we tour the Lithgow museum????

 

[Coyote Chris]

If "Loud Pipes Save Lives" then they should have exhaust pipes that face forward since it's a proven fact that most threats to riders by cars/trucks come in the 10-to-2 quadrant straight ahead. The ones who suffer most from the loud noise are cars that are behind them.

Many years ago, Peter Egan wrote a nice piece in Cycle World about loud pipes and I had it as a student handout for MSF classes. One of his points was "If loud pipes make you so much safer, why doesn't the insurance company give you a discount?"

I like Peter Egan. Its very sad that there are almost normal Harley Riders with legal bikes who obey laws and then there is someone who doesnt wear a helmet, but a dew rag...no googles but sun glasses even at night, and a leather jacket with the sleeves cut off and jeans with chaps (the cod piece of the 21st century) says, "Loud pipes will save my life". They are just people with low opinions of themselves and self esteen issues who want to be "feared". "Look at me...I have skull and crossbones all over my bike...I am poison...I am a killer...I am death...I am a pirate" They are right about one thing...."Born to Lose"

"...Or would you rather swing on a star,
Carry moon beams home in a jar...
And be better off than you are....
Or would you rather be a pig Harley rider"

I also know lots of good Harley riders that also obey laws...one is like a brother to me...one is a trooper who is like my son.....its the 30 percent dirt bags that give the other 70 precent a bad name....

 

[Macka]

Thanks! Can we tour the Lithgow museum????

Lithgow is about 1100km (680 miles) from here in New South Wales and I don't know of the museum to which you refer but I will talk to Dr Google to enlighten myself.

Macka

 

[Coyote Chris]

Lithgow is about 1100km (680 miles) from here in New South Wales and I don't know of the museum to which you refer but I will talk to Dr Google to enlighten myself.

Macka

You got it!
Hint: Pratt Whitney set up the original factory there.

 

[seagrass]

Lithgow is about 1100km (680 miles) from here in New South Wales and I don't know of the museum to which you refer but I will talk to Dr Google to enlighten myself.

Macka

Lithgow is only around 40 miles from my place and you would be welcome at my place too.

There is also a Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) museum there which I have been planning to go to.

Seagrass

 

[Macka]

The only significant museum that I can find is the Small Arms One.
Is that the one you mean?
I visited the Air Museum in Temora earlier this year for their Air Show.
It was very interesting.
Temora is about 200 miles from Lithgow.



Macka

 

[Coyote Chris]

The only significant museum that I can find is the Small Arms One.
Is that the one you mean?
I visited the Air Museum in Temora earlier this year for their Air Show.
It was very interesting.
Temora is about 200 miles from Lithgow.

View attachment 13438
View attachment 13439
Macka

Australia and NZ have some great Plane museums. Peter "Lord of the Rings" Jackson is a great supporter and collector. But yes, I used to collect Lithgow rifles...now I am down to just one in my old age. Temora would be cool.....

 

[Macka]

LAST COMMENT OFF TOPIC

AFAIK there are about half a dozen Spitfires in OZ but only three that fly.
Two of them are at Temora.
I was lucky enough to see them flying together.
Two Merlins together make an awesome sound as they pass over the township.
They passed almost exactly over my Hotel.

Macka

 

[DirtFlier]

One key point missed in all the comments is the poor health of motorcycle sales - all brands - in America and since H-D is the 900-pound gorilla, they get all the press. I haven't seen any recent US sales numbers but I'd guess the total sales for all brands is less than 400,000 per year.

Fortunately for Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc., they have significant sales in India, SE Asia, and Brasil. The vast majority are small bikes and scooters powered by 150-200 cc engines but selling a million units per year, every year, still comes to a pile of money! As an example in India, there are five major players in the scooter/small motorcycle market and Honda is one of the five. Each of those players sells a million units per year!

In those same markets, H-D is a luxury item (as it is here!) so I can't see them looking to those markets for much salvation.

 

[Papa Lou]

Some things I liked in this thread: (1) The intro to the 2020 Pan American concept that I'll sign up for right now. (2) The photo of the 40's vintage military WL, or equivalent. (3) The flash of inspiration thinking about riding Australia & New Zealand as winter ravages the Northwest USA. And last but not least, (4) the tongue-in-cheek (but sadly too accurate) social commentary that began the thread.

I've had three Harleys. A '63 Sportster XLH that turned me off to Harleys for about 30 years. A 98 Sportster XL1200S that I put about 50K miles on, including a 14 day run through the lower 48 states. And a 2002 Electra Glide FLHT that I ran from the Arctic Circle / Dalton Highway Alaska to the Mexican Border one summer, then on to a total of 74K miles. The FLHT was my two-wheel pickup truck for about 6 years, though I preferred a 2005 V-Strom for routine work.

But I experienced exactly the same things this thread talks about. I think I may have completed one, and only one, tour of more than few hundred miles on any Harley without some failure causing down time at repair shops. The "Big" rides for much of the Harley crowd are runs to breakfast or dinner once per week. The extensive skill set for much of the Harley crowd consisted, in total, of whacking open the throttle to make as much noise and to get as much attention as possible on their runs between taverns. And, worst of all, I'm quite familiar with the "looks down the nose" from those folks when I'd show up for a charity event on anything non-Harley.

The summary: I'm not a "Biker", as the Harley crowd and the 1% / Three-Patch clubs call themselves. I don't go from club to club as a social event and to loudly announce my status. I'm a "Rider". I ride solo for 1200 miles to some small cafe in Louisiana to get a cup of coffee with chicory in it, then turn around and ride home. And the only one who knows I went is the waitress I tipped $20 because she smiled nicely to a gritty, old saddle tramp (me).

I think this forum has more "Riders" than "Bikers", it seems. And what the thread illuminates is that we may be a vanishing breed.

Thanks to Electaclyde for kicking off a thought provoking thread.

 

[Miairhead]

H-D might be down, but an my RV trip in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and UP of Michigan, 85% are those bikes. I don't think I have seen a Honda, other then a trike. Of course this is H-D country. A few multi lighted BMW's, and some I just did not get a good look at. Would of very much like to be on the NT rather then my 28' RV, but this is wife's trip. Spent many a day in some hole looking at mines. The Pump Museum/Glider might of been the best stop: the pilot of a Glider in combat average life expediency was 17 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4178dG8Q7A

 

[Macka]

Papa Lou, In OZ most motorcycle riders, even sometimes, scooter riders, are given the generic title of "Bikie".
That, however, has the negative connotation of the 1%ers.
Many times people have been surprised when they find out that I ride a bike and they almost always say "I didn't know that you were a Bikie".
I always reply, "I am not a Bikie, I'm a motorcyclist." Sometimes I add, "You drive a car, does that mean you are a Hoon?"
In OZ, a Hoon is a 1%er in a car.
My driver's licence (BTW: licence is the noun, license is the verb although I believe that in the US you use one for both) shows "Car" and "R" for rider under TYPE.
When I got my licence at 17, motorcycle and car licences were separate items. Decades later they were combined.
OFF SUBJECT
When we in OZ type here the Spell Checker always gives us a hard time, telling us that we are wrong.
For example, in this reply it does not like Bikie, 1%ers, licence or Hoon.

Macka

 

[NoNTnow]

When we in OZ type here the Spell Checker always gives us a hard time, telling us that we are wrong.
For example, in this reply it does not like Bikie, 1%ers, licence or Hoon.

Right click on the "word", select Add to Dictionary, and it won't do it again! :wink:

 

[Papa Lou]

I always reply, "I am not a Bikie, I'm a motorcyclist."

My driver's licence (BTW: licence is the noun, license is the verb although I believe that in the US you use one for both)

Macka

On the first part: I respond similarly when someone notes that I fit into their definition of a Biker. "I'm not biker, I'm a rider", is my response.

On the second part: I learned something today. Awesome! Now I can go for a sunset ride and not feel guilty.:smile:

Thanks, Macka. Ride well.

 

[Macka]

Right click on the "word", select Add to Dictionary, and it won't do it again! :wink:

Thanks for the tip. I will do that.

Macka

 

[Coyote Chris]

LAST COMMENT OFF TOPIC

AFAIK there are about half a dozen Spitfires in OZ but only three that fly.
Two of them are at Temora.
I was lucky enough to see them flying together.
Two Merlins together make an awesome sound as they pass over the township.
They passed almost exactly over my Hotel.

Macka

Merlins are never off topic! In a few days I will be listening to lots of them. At Oshkosh, you can stand behind a P-51 when they start it and taxi away on a grass field....a hat string is highly reccomended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMbz6g5Vlo