I owns a Classic!!!

Brilliot - An average of 53.8 MPG with an NC700X means you use lots of throttle! Or you ride fairly fast most of the time.

My average long-term mileage on my NT700V is around 55-57 MPG and my average with the NC700X is probably in the high 60s. I live in a semi-rural area and only rarely use The Slab so most of my riding - unless I'm on a long trip - is done on surface roads with an average speed of 40-55 mph. When I'm on The Slab, I'm usually at the posted limit or maybe +5 mph.

I will freely admit the NC700X is far from perfect but it's different and I enjoy the change when switching from my NT700V. Compared to the NT, it feels like a heavy dirt bike!
 
Coyote Chris said:
Hummmmm....that is interesting...the reviewer on Rider claims an average fuel economy on the 750 of 69 mpg over 1400 miles of non-easy riding. A CAnadian spec full dresser 750 caught my eye when Frosty and I were touring in Canada. It was solid red and looked sharp with the bags......How well does your rear brake work alone? View attachment 13868
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I do not regret buying the NC700X with the DCT. This was the first bike that I bought new and for cash. OTD price as little over $13k with a boatload of the Honda Accessories, which I installed myself.

The NC700X has a low center of gravity, which makes it maneuverable and carries its weight very well. The best mileage I ever got on a ride was 80 MPG as the group was not riding hard up the road. The engine design with the cantered cylinders makes it "Undersquare", meaning that stroke is longer than the bore. Thus make it like diesel and producing more torque at lower engine speeds.

The brakes are fine for me, even with the single rotor disk on the front. Mine is 2013, which has 3 piston front caliper and 2 piston rear caliper with the Combined ABS. When the front brake is applied one piston on the rear is applied and vice versa on when the rear is applied. The joy of riding a DCT is there are 3 modes it can be ridden in, D-Mode (Eco), S-Mode (Sport), and MT-Mode (Manual). Both up and downshifts overrides can be done at any time as long the engine speeds are within the established parameters. The PCM has a "Learn" feature that learns your riding style and shifts the transmission based on the riding the trends. I find the bike downshifting as I am about to press the "-" button to downshift.


In a Nutshell, DCT is a computer controlled manual transmission, not an automatic transmission like the old Hondamatics.

Let me know if you would like to know more about this bike.
 
DirtFlier said:
Brilliot - An average of 53.8 MPG with an NC700X means you use lots of throttle! Or you ride fairly fast most of the time.

My average long-term mileage on my NT700V is around 55-57 MPG and my average with the NC700X is probably in the high 60s. I live in a semi-rural area and only rarely use The Slab so most of my riding - unless I'm on a long trip - is done on surface roads with an average speed of 40-55 mph. When I'm on The Slab, I'm usually at the posted limit or maybe +5 mph.

I will freely admit the NC700X is far from perfect but it's different and I enjoy the change when switching from my NT700V. Compared to the NT, it feels like a heavy dirt bike!
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I do live in Los Angeles Area you know. You have to ride at 80 MPH to keep up with traffic when the freeways are wide-open and flowing.

giphy.gif


Not an exaggeration...
 
Brillot2000 said:
I do live in Los Angeles Area you know. You have to ride at 80 MPH to keep up with traffic when the freeways are wide-open and flowing.

giphy.gif


Not an exaggeration...
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OK, thanks....does the standard garden variaty NC have some sort of combined braking? The road test is unclear....the Honda website seems to indicate that the basic brake system comes on the basic bike and the advanced one comes on the DCT,
Disc Brakes with Available Combined ABS
Single front and rear disc brakes give the NC750X great stopping power. The DCT model comes with ABS brakes that are linked rear-to-front for added stopping power, even under challenging conditions.

I took a Van from Ahaheim on the freeway to John Wayne air port...you can have the freeways! :ROFLMAO:
 
I guess after the video you posted I am still in the dark. There is an automatic transmission/scooter mode and also a manual transmittion mode?
 
On my 2014 NC, you can choose D (shifts automatically at low RPM) or S (shifts at approx. 1000 RPM higher). In either of those modes you can use the manual "paddles" on the left control to manually downshift and perhaps (?) upshift. The computer control prevents you from doing something crazy - such as trying to downshift into a lower gear which will exceed engine redline. Some riders use the manual paddles all the time but I prefer to leave it in D and just downshift for turns. Later models of the NC plus the Africa Twin have more options for shifting.

As far as I know, most scooters (perhaps all?) use an external, belt drive system that changes pulley sheave width to accelerate/decelerate. Most of them use centrifugal weights to change the pulleys width. This belt drive system is entirely outside of the engine, similar to chain drive on a bike, and usually encased in its own housing. The Suzuki Burgman 600 scooters uses that same system but supplemented by a push button control so you can have a bit more latitude and the "feel" of having a manual transmission - it manually changes the distance between the pulley sheaves.

The DCT bikes still use what appears to be a somewhat normal transmission with a drive & driven gear for each speed. They have a normal-looking clutch but actuation is via a small centrifugal clutch, similar in concept to the Honda ATVs where there is a shifter & gears but no clutch lever on the handlebar. The DCT transmission gears are contained in the crankcase and running in engine oil. Compared to the NC with manual transmission, the engine width on the DCT models is approx. 25 mm wider due to a spacer that houses some of the shifter stuff, including a supplemental oil filter just for the DCT. It appears the clutch cover and crankcases are the same (?) as on the manual trans models.

Chris - sorry to be long-winded but the DCT is quite different from a scooter drive system. :)
 
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Thanks for the simple explanation. I have never chased down the functioning of the "dual clutch". One clutch is an actuator for the primary clutch?
 
DirtFlier said:
On my 2014 NC, you can choose D (shifts automatically at low RPM) or S (shifts at approx. 1000 RPM higher). In either of those modes you can use the manual "paddles" on the left control to manually downshift and perhaps (?) upshift. The computer control prevents you from doing something crazy - such as trying to downshift into a lower gear which will exceed engine redline. Some riders use the manual paddles all the time but I prefer to leave it in D and just downshift for turns. Later models of the NC plus the Africa Twin have more options for shifting.

As far as I know, most scooters (perhaps all?) use an external, belt drive system that changes pulley sheave width to accelerate/decelerate. Most of them use centrifugal weights to change the pulleys width. This belt drive system is entirely outside of the engine, similar to chain drive on a bike, and usually encased in its own housing. The Suzuki Burgman 600 scooters uses that same system but supplemented by a push button control so you can have a bit more latitude and the "feel" of having a manual transmission - it manually changes the distance between the pulley sheaves.

The DCT bikes still use what appears to be a somewhat normal transmission with a drive & driven gear for each speed. They have a normal-looking clutch but actuation is via a small centrifugal clutch, similar in concept to the Honda ATVs where there is a shifter & gears but no clutch lever on the handlebar. The DCT transmission gears are contained in the crankcase and running in engine oil. Compared to the NC with manual transmission, the engine width on the DCT models is approx. 25 mm wider due to a spacer that houses some of the shifter stuff, including a supplemental oil filter just for the DCT. It appears the clutch cover and crankcases are the same (?) as on the manual trans models.

Chris - sorry to be long-winded but the DCT is quite different from a scooter drive system. :)
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OK, so after hearing/seeing the video explaination (two clutch packs , one running the odd gears, one running the even gears, and your explaination, being there is also a centrifical clutch and a computer is doing the shifting, unless over riden by the rider? I think this must be experienced to understand. But I must say this fellow did the best explaination I have seen for the semi-manual mode. (He speaks English so you have to listen carefully) Note that Honda has sold 13,000 of these in Europe. One vid is worth a 1000 words.
 
Frosty - Yes, the small centrifugal clutch only controls the movement of a normal clutch pushrod moving in/out to engage/disengage the full size clutch. This is the function normally controlled by the clutch lever & cable running to the engine.

Chris - the tranny has a shaft within a shaft, with gears 1, 3, 5 on one shaft and gears 2, 4, 6 on the other shaft. The clutch pack is also divided into odd & even. The gears are always meshed so there isn't any sliding of gears back & forth via shift forks that follow the channels in a shift drum. Gear selection is done via oil pressure. Hard to clearly describe but it works well!

It shift so smoothly and quickly that I've downshifted in the rain while banked into a turn and the rear tire didn't step out. I would never try that with my NT700V! And I will admit that a DCT bike isn't for everyone and some situations required "retraining" my brain to make it work for me.
 
Pretty much all the scooters I'm aware of use a CVT (continuously variable transmission) which uses the variable diameter sheave to achieve the variable drive ratios. The DCT is an entirely different critter that I find fascinating. If there ever would be another bike in my future, I would probably look pretty closely at the DCT option. I'm nearing 70 and Traveller only has 104K so he's just getting broke in so a new scoot will probably not be in the cards.

Mike
 
A new scooter was in the cards for me. I have a medical condition that makes it difficult to throw my leg over the saddle so I was having a hard time with the NT. I bought a Burgman 400 and I've put about 1500 miles on it so far. I have to tell you it looks like I will be able to do everything that I could do on the NT with this one. I plan to go to West Virginia as soon as it warms up to try it on the twisties. The most difficult part of getting used to the scooter is when pulling away from a light or stop sign, where you would reach for the clutch, there is the rear brake so instead of accelerating you stop. The people behind you think you are an idiot.
 
DirtFlier said:
Chris - the tranny has a shaft within a shaft, with gears 1, 3, 5 on one shaft and gears 2, 4, 6 on the other shaft. The clutch pack is also divided into odd & even. The gears are always meshed so there isn't any sliding of gears back & forth via shift forks that follow the channels in a shift drum. Gear selection is done via oil pressure. Hard to clearly describe but it works well!

It shift so smoothly and quickly that I've downshifted in the rain while banked into a turn and the rear tire didn't step out. I would never try that with my NT700V! And I will admit that a DCT bike isn't for everyone and some situations required "retraining" my brain to make it work for me.
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Wow....the vid Brillot2000 posted was interesting as far as the dual clutchs but I would have never guessed the shift actions were determined by some sort of oil pressure. But I should have. That is exactly how Honda does VTEC. Unencumbered by the thought process, I would have thought a computer would have taken in account how hard you were accelerating, for one point,rpm for another, throttle setting, etc to determine when the engine actually shifted. And maybe that is still true. In the vid I put up by das Englander, if you are in some sort of manual mode, the engine will just stay at redline till you decide to hit the paddle, unless you are slowing, then it will downshift automatically. I think this is a bike that one has to actully ride to understand what is happening. My Subaru has a chain drive CVT, but people didnt like the rubber band way it felt, so Subaru programed a computer to simulate six ghost gears. If I accelerate normally, the tranny "feels" like it shifts at low rpm through about six gears, but the computer is just stepping the chain through 6 ghost steps in the CVT. Punch it, and the shift points are much higher on the tach. With the Honda DCT, we have something more akin to an F1 paddle actuated tranny. Real gears and real clutches to be sure but what actuats the shifting is what's different. It would be fun to try one and do a test card to see when the tranny shifted and under what conditions....I like it better than a scooter CVT.
 
Cnille said:
A new scooter was in the cards for me. I have a medical condition that makes it difficult to throw my leg over the saddle so I was having a hard time with the NT. I bought a Burgman 400 and I've put about 1500 miles on it so far. I have to tell you it looks like I will be able to do everything that I could do on the NT with this one. I plan to go to West Virginia as soon as it warms up to try it on the twisties. The most difficult part of getting used to the scooter is when pulling away from a light or stop sign, where you would reach for the clutch, there is the rear brake so instead of accelerating you stop. The people behind you think you are an idiot.
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You can certainly see why many people with physical challanges ride Harleys and I can see why certain forum members are getting on their bikes like they are getting on a horse. Easier on some bikes than others. Me? I am still doing the stretching exercises but when I load up the pax seat, I have to come up with some grunts to get that leg over the saddle.
 
Well, someone at the rally came up with a novel windscreen fix.
13876
 
It's clear that Honda is pleased with the DCT although acceptance by riders has been lukewarm, especially by old farts. It was first fitted to that weird "Star Wars" looking scooter that was way overpriced, then 1-2 years later on the new NC/CTX series in 2012, next on the Africa Twin and finally on the latest Gold Wing. Along they way it was also used on the side-by-side ATV that uses many of the engine/tranny components from the Africa Twin 1000.

I see the DCT as Honda's attempt at getting younger people and also women who've never learned to drive a "stick" car to hop on a motorcycle. And amongst younger (16-22) kids, most of them have no idea how to operate a car with manual trans...or any car!
 
Coyote Chris said:
Wow....the vid Brillot2000 posted was interesting as far as the dual clutchs but I would have never guessed the shift actions were determined by some sort of oil pressure. But I should have. That is exactly how Honda does VTEC. With the Honda DCT, we have something more akin to an F1 paddle actuated tranny. Real gears and real clutches to be sure but what actuats the shifting is what's different. It would be fun to try one and do a test card to see when the tranny shifted and under what conditions....I like it better than a scooter CVT.
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There is an actual shift drum that is actuated by a servo motor. The oil pressure is used to actuate the clutches, that's it. The shift points are mapped in the PCM and vary on which automatic mode you are in. There is a rev limiter and it goes off at about 6,500 rpm. You will only hit it when using MT-Mode.

The PCM monitors all the parameters such as the countershaft speed, engine speeds, and front and rear wheel speeds to help with the determination regarding where the shifts shall occur.

In Manual Mode, it will not downshift for you. It will only shift into first if you come to a complete stop.
 
Brillot2000 said:
There is an actual shift drum that is actuated by a servo motor. The oil pressure is used to actuate the clutches, that's it. The shift points are mapped in the PCM and vary on which automatic mode you are in. There is a rev limiter and it goes off at about 6,500 rpm. You will only hit it when using MT-Mode.

The PCM monitors all the parameters such as the countershaft speed, engine speeds, and front and rear wheel speeds to help with the determination regarding where the shifts shall occur.

In Manual Mode, it will not downshift for you. It will only shift into first if you come to a complete stop.
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Thanks! Pretty cool system.
 
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