New source for economical hydrogen?

mikesim

mikesim

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I just ran across this news item this morning. It seems that a group of scientists from OZ have developed a way to extract hydrogen from sea water. They are in the process of obtaining a patent on their system. I usually don't get too excited about stories such as this as I have seen too many "flashes in the pan" in my lifetime, but if this pans out, it would be a game changer. It will be interesting to see what happens with their process.

Hydrogen From Seawater: Australian Research Team Says It's Cracked It (rideapart.com)

Mike
 
The Australian Government has been funding hydrogen research for a few years now as they are aware that with the vast distances in our country (same geographical are as the United States) and small population (only 27 million) electric vehicles will not be suitable for all the people.

At a guess I would suggest this company is one of the companies that has been receiving research funding.

Seagrass
 
I hadn't thought of the impracticality of EV's in OZ until you mentioned it. You have a lot of wide open spaces which make EV's a non starter fr many people. We have the same issue in the western states where there is a movement to stop the Feds from stuffing EV's down their throats.

Mike
 
I am scratching my head. Is this like an electric car plugged into a coal plant?
This would be an exciting prospect. Hydrogen from electrolysis has been around for a long time. They do not mention the energy required in their process.
It has been more than 50 years, but I seem to remember the conservation of matter and energy. That they are neither created nor destroyed, merely converted from one form to another ... electricity (converted mechanical, chemical, etc energy) in a light bulb turns to heat and light ... photosynthesis (sun energy) in a bean plant, leafs captures suns energy in bean plant which goes to the seed (bean) then into a burrito which ... but I digress.

Hydrogen (if we could manage the liquid form) could be used to power vehicles, generators, etc.

When Oxygen and Hydrogen are mixed, the oxidation process (burning) produces energy and water. Water is 2 molecules of Hydrogen bonded to an Oxygen molecule. To separate them, it should require energy that is then released when they are rejoined. The trick to get Hydrogen and Oxygen from water is, where does the energy in the process come from and how much?
 
Thanks. I went through it and still scratching my head. I remember Ionic fuel cells used in the space program in the late 60's. Hydrogen and Oxygen were introduced at opposite sides of the cells with catalytic screens for annode and cathode with a membrane in between. Just electricity and water as by products.
Where the energy comes from and how efficient is the conversion. You worry about the process creation by products.
I like solar to Hydrogen and Oxygen then use to convert into energy.
 
I am gonna stick my neck out here and say we do have a competition for new immerging technologies to power vehicles, but Hydrogen will loose in the end. Like driving on the right side of the road and 8 tracks loosing out to another audio technology, the push for EVs will win in the end. I dont see a country where half the people use E charging stations and half use hydrogen. I would be interested in data of a cost per mile comparison between the two energy sourses.
 
mikesim said:
It seems that a group of scientists from OZ have developed a way to extract hydrogen from sea water.
Click to expand...
The navy's been doing that for years. It's a byproduct of extracting oxygen.
It requires a tremendous amount of power. Unless you're making helium, it's a net loss.
 
Perhaps using natural gas is an easier route (for ICE) because most of the network already exists?
 
Randall-in-Mpls said:
The navy's been doing that for years. It's a byproduct of extracting oxygen.
It requires a tremendous amount of power. Unless you're making helium, it's a net loss.
Click to expand...
Yes, indeed. It is how they provide O2 for the sailors in the nuclear subs that remain submerged for six months. With an on board reactor, power is not a problem. The novel part about the scientists in OZ is that they have presumably come up with a process that economically separates they hydrogen from seawater.

Mike
 
DirtFlier said:
Perhaps using natural gas is an easier route (for ICE) because most of the network already exists?
Click to expand...
It is easier however natural gas is still a fossil fuel and thus creates pollutants that are unacceptable to the greens.

Mike
 
Coyote Chris said:
I am gonna stick my neck out here and say we do have a competition for new immerging technologies to power vehicles, but Hydrogen will loose in the end. Like driving on the right side of the road and 8 tracks loosing out to another audio technology, the push for EVs will win in the end. I dont see a country where half the people use E charging stations and half use hydrogen. I would be interested in data of a cost per mile comparison between the two energy sourses.
Click to expand...
Don't be so quick to award the victory to the EV's. There are still a lot of problems with the technology, infrastructure, etc. that needs to be worked out before they will be the primary source of transportation.

Mike
 
I ran across this item yesterday which could change the EV outlook. India has discovered a large "inferred" deposit of lithium. The deposit needs to be proven but if it is there, it removes some of the stranglehold that China has on the element. India and China are already at loggerheads over the northern India provinces and these deposits are in a volatile area so it will be interesting to see what happens.

India discovers of 5.9 million tonnes of lithium - Mining Technology (mining-technology.com)

Mike
 
mikesim said:
It is easier however natural gas is still a fossil fuel and thus creates pollutants that are unacceptable to the greens.
Click to expand...
A standard of living above subsistence is unacceptable to the greens. They won t be satisfied until you and I are no longer longer a cancer on the earth.
 
I don't own any guns. I just resist the zeitgeist and vote for reasonable people.
Greta Thunberg will burn out on her own hubris. She's yesterday's news.
 
mikesim said:
I ran across this item yesterday which could change the EV outlook. India has discovered a large "inferred" deposit of lithium. The deposit needs to be proven but if it is there, it removes some of the stranglehold that China has on the element. India and China are already at loggerheads over the northern India provinces and these deposits are in a volatile area so it will be interesting to see what happens.

India discovers of 5.9 million tonnes of lithium - Mining Technology (mining-technology.com)

Mike
Click to expand...
Winnemucca Nevada is build on Lithium...the problem is the environmental cost of mining it...I dont think India cares about that cost.
www.opb.org

Central Washington airport hosts first test flight of hydrogen-powered airliner

The largest aircraft yet to fly on hydrogen-electric power made a successful first flight in Moses Lake, Washington, on Thursday. The maiden flight of a converted turboprop airliner offered a preview of one possible pathway for how to make your future flights more eco-friendly. Hydrogen fuel is...
www.opb.org
 
How do you envision the hydrogen getting used? I find strapping myself into something with a cryogenic fuel tank somewhat repellant.
 
I don't know that the hydrogen needs to be held in cryogenic conditions. It will need to be stored under very high pressure though. You don't think twice about strapping yourself into/onto an ICE vehicle with gallons of very explosive fuel that is only contained by sheet metal or molded plastic.
 
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