ABS or Not?

[Phil Tarman]

Ken, from my one crash (on my 1st Connie in 2006) I learned that the issue with braking while turned isn't so much whether you lose traction as much as it is that braking tends to stand the bike up and widen the turn radius. I didn't push hard enough on the right bar to maintain my turn and I believe that I could have made the turn fairly easily if I had just leaned more. My only excuse (tell it to my poor totaled Concours!) is that it was night and the turn looked a lot tighter than it actually was. I wasn't even going very fast -- maybe 50 in a turn that I'd ridden before and have ridden since at 65-70mph with no issues.

But I think both the ABS and the traction-control offered by Ducati sounds pretty amazing.

 

[JQL]

Touring in the US with dirt roads in mind...

Multistrada 1200S

 

[charlie b]

Didn't BMW come out with that before the Duc? Or did they both have it the same year. Or was it Brembo that developed it and both got it from them?

Don't need no stinkin dual sport to ride on graded dirt roads

 

[karl]

Some interesting reading
http://www.bosch-motorcycle.com/en/de/fahrsicherheit_fuer_zweiraeder/motorrad_abs/technische_evolution_von_motorrad_abs/technische_evolution_von_motorrad_abs.html#

 

[bicyclist]

BMW was first with ABS on the 88 K models. They had a demo bike with outriggers and a way to switch off the ABS. They'd wet down a parking lot and a rider would ride across and clamp on the brakes with the ABS turned off. The bike would flop over onto the outriggers. Next, they'd put a brave passenger on the back and do it again with the ABS turned on. The bike would stop straight and true and you could hear the pulsing of the brakes. It was a great sales pitch.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Chris, my understanding is that ABS wouldn't keep you from exceeding available traction in a turn. It would handle the braking loads but not the turning load.

 

[charlie b]

The new ABS system is controlled with the help of a gyro that determines lean angle and (I think) slip to determine how much brake can be applied in the turn. A bit more sophisticated than the std ABS that works really only when vertical.

 

[ken]

lean angle and (I think) slip to determine how much brake can be applied in the turn

Exactly right. There are road tests of the Ducati where apparently the speed, lean angle, differential in speed between front and rear wheel, gear, and throttle opening are monitored so that maximum breaking under any condition-wet or dry--is applied while allowing bike to maintain its lean angle. It's a kind of combination of traction control, ABS and dynamic stability control (DSC). By the time I need a new bike, I assume this magic will be widely available.


This, and the skyhook suspension system (http://www.sportrider.com/tech/semi-active-suspension), would make for a very safe bike.

Ken

 

[karl]

The primary info it uses are the hall sensors that look at rotation of the wheels. Most of the Older systems like ours can cycle the brake about 5 times a second. You can still lock the rear wheel with the engine (too low a gear for road speed) or make other mistakes that can hurt you. What ABS does for us now is keep a wheel from locking (stop turning) with the brakes. Both time mine has helped me the road was dry. I and the bike where dripping from a sun shower once but I was up and the road was dry. Check out this video you know where I stand on the subject.
[video=youtube_share;M3MfLcJLaCs]http://youtu.be/M3MfLcJLaCs[/video]

 

[DirtFlier]

[...You can still lock the rear wheel with the engine (too low a gear for road speed)...]

This is really a result of downshifting too quickly and not a weakness in the ABS system. Some sport bikes have special clutches that allow rapid downshifting without breaking traction. It does this by allowing two or more clutch plates to slip under back torque conditions.

 

[charlie b]

Yep, if you want full traction control try one of the newer sport bikes, like an Aprilla. Enough electronic controls on those things for any geek. And the new beemers too. It is available now if you want it. Just pay up

The problem is you can still brake too hard in a corner and lose it, or go too fast in a corner, or any number of things that will cause an accident.

Like Phil, one of the more common problems is to go into a corner hot, brake while leaned and have the bike 'stand up' due to the braking, then go off the road. Almost got me a couple of times until I found out what it was and compensate for it.

None of this accounts for bad road conditions either, like weird bumps in a corner or sand/leaves/etc that can be found on most any road.

There is a down side. All those things mean more things to go wrong. Things you can't fix and will leave you with a bike that won't start.

I'd just like a bare minimum ABS for my ancient bike.

 

[karl]

Dirtflyer I was not faulting the ABS just pointing out there where other ways to lock a wheel and fall.

 

[Phil Tarman]

I agree with Karl. I'm sure all the electronics greatly increase the safety of riding, but I can't help but believe that there are still many ways to fall-down-and-go-boom. I'm still seeing some spectacular crashes when I watch MotoGP.