Battery weird stuff - can it die instantly?

[turboslob]

Hi.

Toddled off for a ride today, and ended up getting a tow truck home. Here's what happened.

Stopped for a p#ss (bike had started fine in morning, and had done 50kms). Got back on bike, turned key and there was an instant click and everything was out. No dash, no fuel pump priming, no lights; nothing. Tried fuses, they were ok so called roadside.

Roadside tries to jump it, does (but it turns over abnormally slow) but it dies as soon as he removes the jump. Next, I spend most of my day with tow-truck related activities.

Get home, got out volt-meter. Current battery, resting is 12.6V. But, when I turn the key it drops to 0.6V!

Get car battery out (12.6 resting), turn key (~12.5V) and it starts the bike but abnormally slow (espec considering it's a car battery/larger). Anyhoo, when running it goes up to 13.9V at idle, so battery is getting charge.

Can a battery just lose all power, like that? Less than 2 years old. Also, noticed the battery's strap has left, so it may have been jumping around a little. Also, it broke on a dirt road which had some corrugations. Had done a few easy dirt roads lately, if relevant.

Anyone experienced anything similar? Any thoughts on why even the car battery would be starting it a little slower than normal?

Thanks, Slob.

 

[seagrass]

Yes they can die like this and I have seen it previously.

Seagrass

 

[DirtFlier]

This seems to be common with many modern batteries - fine one minute and dead the next!

A dead battery showing 12.6v under no-load is what we call "surface charge." The voltage under load is a true measurement.

 

[turboslob]

There you go - I've never had it happen before. Any ideas on why it seems to be turning over slower?

 

[Frosty]

Check your ground strap and connection for corrosion.

 

[ARKNT]

A battery is an electrical device. All are prone to shorts, opens and bad (high resistance) connections. Batteries also have the chemical side to them.
It sounds like yours has an internal short, although one that only shows up when trying supply current. Even when you are jumping it the short is still there, pulling down the voltage.
The broken strap may have helped it fail by allowing more vibration.
If you feel like more experimentation you could remove the bike battery from the circuit and run it from your jumper cable and car battery. Then check for more normal results like turning over at normal speed. Just be careful to insulate the connection point. Direct shorts are very bad and can be dangerous (battery explosions).

Brad

 

[Chucksklrst]

Put a full charge on the battery then measure the voltage as you are running the starter motor. If the volts drops below 10 volts you need a new battery. Low or bad batteries can cause very weird symptoms. I have seen it all in almost 40 years of riding.

 

[Brillot2000]

These AGM batteries seem to die without any warning. It had happened to me twice on two different bikes in the last years.

I am waiting for this to happen to me on NaTalie in the near future as I do not know how old the battery was before I bought the bike. I carry a portable jumpstarter with me in my gear bag at all times now.

A battery can have a voltage without any current draw on it. The voltage dropping to "0V" is due to the battery does not have the capacity to support any load, even a light one of less than an Amp.

I have purchased and used the Scorpion brand battery without any issues. They are economically priced and are just as good as the OEM unit it replaces. YTZ14S Scorpion 220 CCA AGM Motorcycle Battery.

 

[Warren]

After going through a couple of Yuasa batteries I went with a much less expensive Scorpion AGM YTZ14S. I bought it from the company in the link above. They shipped quickly and the battery show up in good condition.

It is now about 3 years old and still starts my NT quickly even in winter temperatures into the teens.

Even though most companies will say they ship you these batteries fully charged I did not find that to be the case. I had to leave mine on my battery tender for 24 hours before it got up to 13.2 volts. When delivered it was at 12.6 volts. I think after 8 hours the green light came on saying it was fully charged but it measured only 12.8 volts. After 24 hours it registered 13.2. I check it periodically and it always shows between 13.0-13.2.

Since I ride all year round my battery never sees a tender other than the initial charge. It see temperatures from the teens to above 100. (it is parked outdoors). I usually expect to get 3-4 years out of a battery and will replace the Scorpion with another one when it reaches 4 years old. Since these batteries will often fail without warning I prefer replacing them as preventative maintenance rather than waiting for them to fail at the time I least want to be stranded..

 

[Coyote Chris]

This seems to be common with many modern batteries - fine one minute and dead the next!

A dead battery showing 12.6v under no-load is what we call "surface charge." The voltage under load is a true measurement.

This is one of the reasons I have a cheep ressistive battery tester. I had the same thing happen that happened to turbo. It was a loose battery connection. But once upon a time, there was a mystery illness called "GoldWing itis" You would hit the starter button on your wing and boom. It was just like there was no battery in the bike. Replace and two years later, the same thing. Happened to me three times. Turned out the Yuasa factory had a bad welder and the plate connections would burn open under high current.
If you place the voltmeter connectors/pins RIGHT ON THE BATTERY TERMINALS and not the wire connections, and turn on the switch so that maybe a headlight and the comptuer come on as well as the dash lights, and the meter drops to .6, you have very high internal resistance and a bad battery. If you can then jump start the bike with your jump pack and the bike stops running when you remove the pack, you have a dead battery. The Vstom has a built in voltmeter which can be useful but I carry a cheep/free Harbor Fright one with me. Many say it is dangerous to temperaryily hardwire your jump pack in and ride off to a place of saftey but I would do it in a heartbeat, stopping every 5 minutes and checking the bat. temperature.

 

[Coyote Chris]

After going through a couple of Yuasa batteries I went with a much less expensive Scorpion AGM YTZ14S. I bought it from the company in the link above. They shipped quickly and the battery show up in good condition.

It is now about 3 years old and still starts my NT quickly even in winter temperatures into the teens.

Even though most companies will say they ship you these batteries fully charged I did not find that to be the case. I had to leave mine on my battery tender for 24 hours before it got up to 13.2 volts. When delivered it was at 12.6 volts. I think after 8 hours the green light came on saying it was fully charged but it measured only 12.8 volts. After 24 hours it registered 13.2. I check it periodically and it always shows between 13.0-13.2.

Since I ride all year round my battery never sees a tender other than the initial charge. It see temperatures from the teens to above 100. (it is parked outdoors). I usually expect to get 3-4 years out of a battery and will replace the Scorpion with another one when it reaches 4 years old. Since these batteries will often fail without warning I prefer replacing them as preventative maintenance rather than waiting for them to fail at the time I least want to be stranded..

Not a bad idea to replace the new fail prone batterys as a matter of course, but how often?

 

[Warren]

I find that about 4 years it about it for my batteries but I am sure it depends on how often you ride. the weather conditions, the electrical load you put on it and if it is idle on a tender during winter season or used year around. If I remember correctly some members have claimed they still have the original battery.

 

[Cnille]

The first time you see your tripmeters lose the data on them you know the battery is failing.

 

[Brillot2000]

The first time you see your tripmeters lose the data on them you know the battery is failing.

Mine has been changing from Trip1 to the Odometer on occasions intermittently when starting. I know a DOA battery is in my future. I got both a portable jump starter and AAA on standby when that day happens.

 

[Coyote Chris]

After going through a couple of Yuasa batteries I went with a much less expensive Scorpion AGM YTZ14S. I bought it from the company in the link above. They shipped quickly and the battery show up in good condition.
It is now about 3 years old and still starts my NT quickly even in winter temperatures into the teens.
. Since these batteries will often fail without warning I prefer replacing them as preventative maintenance rather than waiting for them to fail at the time I least want to be stranded..

OK, I just looked. My replacement OEM is exactly three years old. Think I will check the Voltage drop upon start now and at the end of the season. Then make a decision about a new bat. Spring '20. This bike doesnt get ridden as much anymore as my FJR and D650XT do but I am keeping that link...

 

[ARKNT]

Another battery failure indicator I noticed on my last bad battery was the fuel gauge would dip while the starter was cranking. On mine this occurred before the trip meters and clock reset.
These batteries can be pretty unpredictable.

Brad

 

[turboslob]

To close the problem, a new battery solved it. Runs as per before. Short of bringing a spare battery on your travels, if this happens you're stuck!
I was lucky, I had one bar of reception 100m up a hill from where it stopped - still took 3 drop-outs to get through to roadside.

Back on the road now, all is well.

 

[turboslob]

Also, regarding the last comments regarding unusual behaviour, no signs were present. Everything was fine, then it wasn't!

 

[Macka]

I find that about 4 years it about it for my batteries but I am sure it depends on how often you ride. the weather conditions, the electrical load you put on it and if it is idle on a tender during winter season or used year around. If I remember correctly some members have claimed they still have the original battery.

Yes, Warren. My NT was built in December 2008 and still has the original battery fitted.
I test it regularly and it is still capable of supplying 175 Amps which is excellent as the new unit rating is 230 CCA IIRC.
It has not let me down but has not seen freezing temperatures since last August.
I know that it can't last much longer but I am really curious to see just how long it will go on.
I do carry a Jump Pack when touring but not on local rides.

Macka

 

[Thumpn]

This happened on my ST1100 in 2016,. I had no indications of any battery issues ever with the bike. I started the bike one morning and rode up to the hardware store, then got back on the bike and started it up and rode a mile down the street to get fuel. When I tried to start the bike it had nothing....it would not even light up the neutral light. I first suspected fuses so I checked that and all the wiring - I got a jump from a car and it fired right up....I rode for 40 minutes hoping to charge the battery. When I got home and shut it off....nothing. The battery was dead and would not accept a charge. It turned out was the original HONDA labeled Yuasa battery and was 14 years old!