Clutch replacement done...

[ST1100Y]

during today's MSL course my GF reported some slipping clutch incidents...

Got the kit already sitting in the shelf, anything really special or unusual to be special attentive off?

 

[ARKNT]

Don't think there have been many clutches replaced on NTs here.

Brad

 

[moriniman2011]

And not commonly reported on over the channel either - sure it is the clutch rather than a cable issue. And presumably the correct oil is in place?

 

[DirtFlier]

I have almost 79k miles on my original clutch and WVRider is at about the same mileage also with the original clutch.

 

[Moto-Kafe]

Yes.........oil. Make sure it has no Friction Modifiers (or Energy Concerving Products) which will cause a wet clutch to slip.

 

[mikesim]

I'm ready to roll over 130K and still have the OE clutch.

Mike

 

[Brillot2000]

Over 33 years of riding Hondas. I never had to replace the clutch on any of those 16-18 Honda models that I had or experienced any clutch slippages.

Only the CB750A Hondamatic that I had was the only exception. The hydraulic torque converter would slip if the oil level got slightly low. A poor design all around, that’s my opinion.

Oil viscosity and additives do play a role in clutch operation. However, I do not believe that is the case here.

I would lean towards improper clutch cable play adjustments putting the friction zone near the lever’s end of travel being fully released or it being fully seated in the lever stay. If you follow the factory recommended lever play distances. That’s exactly what you will get. I have the cable slack set much looser to get the friction zone where I want it.

 

[DirtFlier]

ST1100Y - What is the "MSL course?"

ps. if you really have to go inside to get at the clutch, it might be the perfect time to replace the Crank Position Sensor although the failure rate on that part is pretty low.

 

[Brillot2000]

ps. if you really have to go inside to get at the clutch, it might be the perfect time to replace the Crank Position Sensor although the failure rate on that part is pretty low.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I do not think the clutch is the issue. Again, I recommend loosening the clutch cable adjustment at the lever adjustment to put the friction zone where ST1100Y's GF wants it.

 

[ST1100Y]

MSL -> Motorcycle Safety Lessons (BTW: a term I'd absorbed from a US based forum...)

Again, we'd purchased the bike used with 36Tkm/22K-miles...
Dunno what the PO did with it, my GF uses it for daily urban commuting and over here riding like requires generally much more shifting (and) action...

My ST1100 with 120Tkm/75K-miles is as well due for a set of new friction plates... like tires, rotors and brake pads does such come with terrain and usage...

Removal of down-pipes does not seem required, only loosen the two silencer mounts and tilt the pipes outward...
If I'll the job with the bike sitting on the side-stand, I'll probably don't even loose engine oil...

 

[ST1100Y]

Alright...
Draining the oil, replacing filter and clutch plates went pretty uneventful, removal of silencer obligatory, down-pipes can stay in place...
Thickness of old friction plates still well within usable limits, but they showed significant discoloration (very dark brown) so I replaced them while already in there anyway...
Soaked the new plates in new engine oil (decided to go with full synth this time), assembled the stack, put things back together in reverse order...
Runs perfect, clutch engages a bit earlier and very precise now, no issues with shifting into neutral while stationary anymore...

Things helpful to know:
- also order 90236-HA0-000, NUT,LOCK,18MM when attempting the job; the nut is made of hardened steel, nearly impossible to bend the punched collar open without braking it
- after stacking the steel- & friction plates onto the clutch center, take two clutch springs with the lifter plate and screw it on, it'll hold the set together, eases inserting it into the basket
- remember that the tabs of disk B grab into the notches of the clutch basket fingers, not the slots (as all other friction plates)
- having a clutch-tool like this comes handy when torquing the central nut

 

[DirtFlier]

I hope your "full synth" oil was approved for engines where the oil is shared with the clutch? And out of curiosity, why did you decide to change to syntheric oil at this point?

 

[ST1100Y]

I hope your "full synth" oil was approved for engines where the oil is shared with the clutch?

LOL!
BelRay EXS 10W50, can't go more motorcycle/wet clutch specific then that...

And out of curiosity, why did you decide to change to syntheric oil at this point?

i) it has proven to me over decades... (using it in my ST1100's since '92...) and I like the wider temperature range... cold mornings, hot, tormented engines in urban commute or steep alpine roads...
ii) due the significant discoloration of the NT700 clutch parts I presume overeating due lubricant failure... the practice after which clutch slippage showed was going slowly with slightly raised RPM, dragging clutch and controlling your speed with the rear brake, a standard action one performs during any slow maneuvering, parking lot U-turn, tight cornering/back-sweeps... actually the very reason we do have oil-bath clutches in motorcycles...

One should however not change the oil type used in the engine as clutch plates are saturated with the previous one, such will mostly lead to clutch problems... having new plates installed however provided an excellent opportunity though...

And since I treat my motorcycles like an aircraft I'm not going the "maybe it goes away"-routine... if a problem dawns, it's getting fixed... period...

 

[ST1100Y]

Alright, GF attended another MSL this week...

Guess what?...

16,000km/10Kmiles... ain't a lot...

OK, she does daily urban commuting... stop'n'go, really slow crawling, hovering the clutch...
The V-twin not being a torque monster, those Alpine routes with narrow back-sweeps will also require more clutch-work then my V-4...

Anyway, will get friction plates, steel plates, judder spring and clutch springs this time...

 

[cliffh]

Are you SURE the clutch cable isn't rusted inside and is freely sliding? I've had Honda motorcycles for over 58 years, some with well over 140,000 miles on them.....pulling a trailer a lot also....and never had a clutch issue EXCEPT for rusted clutch cables. I'd really suggest taking the cable off on BOTH ends and making sure that it slides freely. Having free play at the lever does NOT mean the cable is sliding freely and giving full movement at the clutch arm end.

Cliff

 

[ST1100Y]

Are you SURE the clutch cable isn't rusted inside and is freely sliding?

Nah, clutch engages on the very last bit of the lever movement... again... (and the lever snaps out fully within the armature)
The MSL included some slow, close cornering practice (like realy tight parking lot U-turns), keeping revs with clutch on slipping point while controlling the speed with the rear brake...
Do that repetitive for like 15~20 minutes a bit too eagerly and the clutch is toast...
No biggie, just ordered the whole set for € 278,-...

 

[mikesim]

I have almost 79k miles on my original clutch and WVRider is at about the same mileage also with the original clutch.

137K on the OE clutch here. I think Woodaddict still had his OE clutch at 200K if I'm not mistaken.

Mike

 

[ST1100Y]

I think Woodaddict still had his OE clutch at 200K if I'm not mistaken.

Cruising down a highway doesn't put strain on a clutch...

Checked cable and kinematics, all seem fine...
Will knock the cover off once the plates arrive...

 

[Woodaddict]

I think Woodaddict still had his OE clutch at 200K if I'm not mistaken

You are correct. 201,111 miles, OEM clutch. I only adjusted clutch cable once. 2nd NT at 92,000 now, still OEM.

My observation with st1100 over there on that BIG island, he is a good mechanic, likes to wrench, likes to make work for himself. Either this post or another one talked about clutch surging. I can / could make both " surge" but feathering the clutch. Not something you want to do very much. Some engines just like / will do it ( feels like slip), when in certain conditions will do it, even tho not needing replacement. So will seem that st1100 wants a perfect bike with clutch usage, but after replacement, it will still act the same

 

[ST1100Y]

Some engines just like / will do it ( feels like slip), when in certain conditions will do it, even tho not needing replacement.

Methinks she just "feathered" the clutch too much during the lesson, overheating, hence glazing the friction plates it in the process...
She also reported not gaining speed while raising revs on the motorway on her way home...
But we'll know more upon inspection of the parts...