CTX 'Bust'?

[Miairhead]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-CT-/131081003520?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1e85096200&item=131081003520

I wonder if the CTX will fair better then the NT, but I don't think so. Mostly I believe it the poor dealer network, starting with Honda Corporate. If you have any connection with H-D, you get information all the time, and a pitch, even a invitation to ride one. Honda does not seem to do any of the aggressive advertising. You go to most dealers, the salesman are enjoying themselves doing anything but caring about customers: H-D you will get a person in 10 steps, talking about motorcycles.

 

[Warren]

Honda placed near the bottom of this dealer survey.

May 11, 2012 - Industry benchmarking study shows widespread improvement in dealership treatment of motorcycle shoppers

Harley-Davidson dealerships returned to the top ranking in the newly released 2012 Pied Piper Prospect Satisfaction Index (PSI) U.S. Motorcycle Industry Benchmarking Study, which measured dealership treatment of motorcycle shoppers.

 

[vzshadow]

I believe it will sell much better than the NT. It's light (okay the low center of gravity makes it feel light), gets great gas mileage and most of all the price point right. Salesmen at my local dealership, who provides great service, tell me they struggle to sell bike at $10,000 and higher. I've talked to a few owners and like us, they love their bikes. Remember, we are not their targeted market. It's new owner and younger folks with less disposable income.

 

[DirtFlier]

Harley dealers are Harley-only while the vast majority of dealers that sell Honda motorcycles also sell more than one brand. In the latter scenario, dealers try to sell whichever brand & model offers the most profit that month via various sales incentives.

My NT came from a Honda Powerhouse (Honda-only) dealer and I often get promo postcards and even phone messages to attend special events at the dealership.

 

[Warren]

I like Honda's concept for the CTX but if it is designed for new riders it should have come with a belt drive not a chain.

 

[suvcw04]

I agree, Sam, that the CTX looks great in the black and white color scheme. And notice the BMW-ish style side bags. Looks like Honda is paying attention to the previous shortcomings.

I checked out both of the CTX's at the bike show. I actually liked the 700 more than the 1300. The 1300 felt very top heavy and not balanced to me. And it's not like I'm not used to larger heavier motorcycles. I've owned H-D and just about every heavy BMW in the past 14 years.

But a chain? No thank you. Sam, you will not go thousands of worry free miles on a chain. You will need to clean and lubricate regularly. My modern day Triumph from a couple years ago said I had to lubricate it every 175 miles. That's fine if you are a fair weather summer rider that puts 2 thousand miles on a bike the entire riding season, but on a 2 or 4 or 5 thousand mile trip??? No thank you.

I bought my first bike in 1966. The NT was the first bike I owned that did not have a chain. I NEVER replaced one. After a ride, while the chain is hot, I sprayed it with chain lube. The light, carrier components evaporate, the heavier lube components stick. It takes far less time to lube a chain 50 times than it takes to service a shaft even once.

 

[Phil Tarman]

I would not have been wanting to mess with a chain on my Epic Ride. And $200 per 20-25K miles for chain and sprocket replacement sure would add up over the miles. I'll stick with shaft drive, thenkyewveddymuch.

The bags on the CTX700 I saw wouldn't hold very much. I don't think even as much as the NT's bags with the stock lids, but I may be wrong about that.

Plus I don't like the riding position or the weather protection. But I agree that they'll probably sell. And it does seem like they're being marketed a little better than the NT was.

The big key to selling bikes is dealership sales staff who care and who know something about the whole range of bikes they're selling, not just the one or two models they personally like, IMHO.

 

[Chucksklrst]

A chain is not a war stopper, but it is nice not to have to remember to lube the thing after a ride. I am about ready to replace the chain and sprockets on my Wee at nearly 33000 miles. And yes I have religiously lube it after every ride.

O by the way, the CTX series of bikes Honda is coming out with is definitely a War Stopper in my book. IMHO. Come on Honda, give me a break.

 

[vzshadow]

I agree, Sam, that the CTX looks great in the black and white color scheme. And notice the BMW-ish style side bags. Looks like Honda is paying attention to the previous shortcomings.

I checked out both of the CTX's at the bike show. I actually liked the 700 more than the 1300. The 1300 felt very top heavy and not balanced to me. And it's not like I'm not used to larger heavier motorcycles. I've owned H-D and just about every heavy BMW in the past 14 years.

But a chain? No thank you. Sam, you will not go thousands of worry free miles on a chain. You will need to clean and lubricate regularly. My modern day Triumph from a couple years ago said I had to lubricate it every 175 miles. That's fine if you are a fair weather summer rider that puts 2 thousand miles on a bike the entire riding season, but on a 2 or 4 or 5 thousand mile trip??? No thank you.

Chain maintenance is no big deal. I lube the chain on my Bonneville every Saturday. I pop it up on the center stand, spin the rear wheel and spray lube on the chain. Takes a minute or so. I thoroughly clean it several times each summer and for some perverse reason I actually enjoy it. I've only got about 10,000 miles on it, but no noticeable signs of wear.

I only ride it around town, on day trips or perhaps an overnighter. Though I love that bike, chain maintenance would be the least of my problems on a "epic trip" like Phil's. No wind protection, less comfort, no luggage. Different bike, different purpose. Same with the CTX. Different bike, different purpose. The CTX 700 would perhaps provide an introduction to touring for a beginner. We are not their market.

 

[charlie b]

I bought my first bike in 1966. The NT was the first bike I owned that did not have a chain. I NEVER replaced one. After a ride, while the chain is hot, I sprayed it with chain lube. The light, carrier components evaporate, the heavier lube components stick. It takes far less time to lube a chain 50 times than it takes to service a shaft even once.

What service do you do on a shaft drive?

The Guzzi had it's first shaft drive "service" at 50k miles (and 30 years old!). Replaced the front bearing and put in new fluid. And I did that only cause it was already out of the bike due to replacing engine seals. I don't expect to touch it again unless I choose to replace the fluids in the next 50k miles. And, if you do that while warm it takes less time than one chain service.

 

[Miairhead]

I started this thread because the CTX with bags was so cheap. It seems that the CTX going the way of the NT and not holding a good resale (as setup in add it should of been about $11k new). As for the chain verse shaft, it is a issue for many: but if you like the chain so be it. I personally don't want to have to check a chain everyday on a long ride. Yep some people say they get lots of miles on a chain, I found I use to tighten my chain too often for my comfort level.
I would hope the CTX700 does well in sales, but as I said many times: with no help from the dealers I found. One feature of the CTX700 was the very low balance of the engine. I think it not as top heavy as the NT can be for some. And of course the CTX has the 6 speed transmission all reviewers said the NT needed. If the CTX does well I am sure the will be many after market side bags. The CTX does not have as good of weather protection as the NT I do not believe either. If the CTX had anything but a chain I might be riding one now, but I just don't like daily maintenance.

 

[vzshadow]

[

Why would we not be the target market also? I know you switched, but the majority of us here ride the NT which is also called a 'beginner tourer' by many. I think really not that different from a CTX700's target market.

The NT is significantly more bike than the CTX. I think the BMW F800GT is more like the NT than the CTX. If you're on an NT you're way past the target market for the CTX700. My wife could never handle my NT, but I'd put her on a CTX700 without a second thought. Unless you want to downsize, the bike isn't for you.

Now the CTX 1300 is a different story. That would definitely be a more up from the NT.

I found the NT sort of a pain to ride in town. Just a little too tall, a wee bit top heavy. Where it excelled was two lane highways out in the country! Fifty to sixty mph on a twisty country road. Fantastic!

The CTX is 3.5 inches lower (that's huge), 60 pounds lighter, only has a 3.3 gallon fuel tank, much less wind protection, and significantly less power (48) than the NT (60 rear wheel). It's marketed as a reliable, inexpensive bike for novice riders.

I find the feet forward seating position of the CTX a much more negative feature than the chain. The arthritis in my lower back probably has something to do with that.

Based on my observations, the CTX will far out sell the NT. My local dealer had two NTs. The got them in January of 2010. One sold in July and the other sat on the floor for until October, thus enabling me to get a good deal. Because of the low demand the never took on another one. This year they stocked several CTX700s (different versions). The only got them in mid summer and both sold within a few months. They ordered a third which is now on the floor. I'm sure they will take more on in the spring and they're excited to get the CTX1300 in stock, but no point in Maine for 4 more months. It's far easier for them to sell a $7000 bike than a $11000 bike, at least here in central Maine.

 

[Chucksklrst]

Yes, the bikes reviewers state the bike is aimed at first time buyers, people re-entering the riding experience, and women.

Why would we not be the target market also? I know you switched, but the majority of us here ride the NT which is also called a 'beginner tourer' by many. I think really not that different from a CTX700's target market.

So what is Honda offering to OUR Market? Most of us moved to the NT because One of two reasons. We moved down because of weight, or we moved up because we were finished with the beginner/new rider thing, and wanted to expand our horizons. In my case I moved lateral to have another choice of steads in the stable. I do appreciate the less weight that the NT offers from my ST1300. However one cannot beat the ST1300 for long distance touring. The ST1300 is now relegated to multi day trips (a week or more) and the NT is used for weekend (3 to 4 day excursions) overnighters. The Wee is mostly my local mountain county road rider. And the DR is used for out of the way dirt road/trail exploring.

If I had to choose JUST ONE for the rest of my days. The Wee is the bike of choice. It does 95% of what the other bikes do, even with the chain. Jack Of All Trades. Come on Honda, give us some "do every thing" bikes. IE: CrossRunner....

 

[kenstone]

I have a friend who has managed a Honda mc dealership for 30+ years and back when Honda had 80% of the market the other 3 Japanese Mfg'er begged him to take them on.
Because of Honda's restrictions on display area he would have had to triple the building space to do that.
I know a Honda dealership cannot sell a NEW bike and ship it, the buyer (or his agent:redface must take delivery at the dealership.

When sales began to slip and Honda switched it's focus to selling cars, he started selling John Deere homeowner stuff to stay in business.
He had sold Honda mowers too, until Home Depot begain selling them too, and all he got was warrentee repairs
About the same time, the dealership owner also begain concentrating on 2 outdoor clothing stores he owns.
The dealership is down to 3 employees now and sells less motorcycles in a year than he once sold in a month.
Sad really, Ken

 

[elizilla]

No matter what any of the manufacturers make, there are endless threads where people talk about the bike and say it wouldn't suck if X were different, but with X the way it is, it's terrible and the company offering it is an idiot. Then other people say they like X the way it is but the manufacturer really needs to change Y.

I'm sure that if anyone from Honda is reading this thread they are just rolling their eyes. This is what all motorcyclists say about every bike and they know it.

I wish some designer would come out with a notebook and write down my wish list, and make my dream bike. But they never do.

 

[vzshadow]

So what is Honda offering to OUR Market? Most of us moved to the NT because One of two reasons. We moved down because of weight, or we moved up because we were finished with the beginner/new rider thing, and wanted to expand our horizons. In my case I moved lateral to have another choice of steads in the stable. I do appreciate the less weight that the NT offers from my ST1300. However one cannot beat the ST1300 for long distance touring. The ST1300 is now relegated to multi day trips (a week or more) and the NT is used for weekend (3 to 4 day excursions) overnighters. The Wee is mostly my local mountain county road rider. And the DR is used for out of the way dirt road/trail exploring.

If I had to choose JUST ONE for the rest of my days. The Wee is the bike of choice. It does 95% of what the other bikes do, even with the chain. Jack Of All Trades. Come on Honda, give us some "do every thing" bikes. IE: CrossRunner....

If you had to give up a bike, which would it be?

I concur that they aren't doing much for us, but who is? Besides BMW who is making a mid-size bike, with a decent fairing, built in luggage and aimed at touring? I moved to the NT, a move up from a Shadow. I had done a little traveling on the Shadow, but soon realized it wasn't going to cut it. My wife was on a Burgman 400 and we had done some multi-day trips. She was still interested in riding her on bike so I looked around and found the NT and the F800S. I thought either would be a really good machine for 1-up touring. I never really considered the VStrom for some reason. I went with the NT for three reasons: 1. expense; 2. proximity to a Honda dealership and 140 miles to the nearest BMW dealership; 3. the wind protection. The NT served me well. I loved that bike.

This fall the wife, being an old lady (as I am an old man), decided she wanted to to continue riding, but would rather be a passenger on extended trips. We did a three day ride on the NT and found we could do it, but found it was a little cramped and a little under powered. Largely because I was offered $8100 in trade for the NT, I jumped ship and got a Triumph Trophy SE. Plenty of power and creature comfort. The ST1300 was right there in the running. I wanted big, powerful, stabile, wind protection and the ST has all that. But it hasn't been updated for some time. Though almost the same price as the Trophy it offered few of the "extras" that are on the Triumph.

If I was going to buy a Honda, and if it was going to be my one and only bike, it would probably be the CB1100. For me it would be the closest to a do everything bike, but I know I'd be out in the market place looking for a windshield and luggage.

 

[Chucksklrst]

Chuck,
What would you like Honda to offer? Seems to me their lineup is pretty full. No bike can do everything or please all types of riders. You are an example of that, owning 4 different bikes that you use for different situations. Many people here are satisfied with the NT as a "do many things well bike" even if it strikes us as a bit bland.

What you can't beat for long distance touring is a BMW. But few of us want to spend $25,000 or more for it or deal with the weight and top heaviness, or the $2,000 final drive repairs or the $2,000 to $4,000 clutch replacements! Suddenly, my NT looks a hell of a lot better.

What I would like to see from Honda is a same price point true competitor to the FJR with the FJR weight. The ST1300 used to be that bike. Not any more. I would also like to see a 700/750 sport touring bike IE the NT 700 with a V-4 motor. I think the Cross Runner or the new VFR800 (Not available in the US) Would do it. As it is now I am on the fence about buying a new 2014 FJR for my long distance bike. It lies weight wise between the ST1300 and the NT700 at around 620lbs. Not to mention the horse power. If I was to do that the ST and the NT would go away (Downsize you know) Only problem is I have had a ST for over 20 years (ST1100 &1300) and am a bit partial to them. And the longer I keep the NT the more attached to it I become. If Honda brought in the CrossRunner both my NT and the Wee would go away as the CrossRunner would do most if not all that those two bike do for me. As it is now I am forced to keep what I have.:wink:

 

[Chucksklrst]

If you had to give up a bike, which would it be?

I concur that they aren't doing much for us, but who is?shield and luggage.

If I was forced to give up ONE bike right now I would have to sacrifice the NT. Shame on me, you say. But I am still able to man handle the ST1300, but every year it does get heavier. The NT and the ST over lap too much, and I am a bit addicted to the power and smoothness of the ST1300. That is one reason I have had the ST1300 for more than 11 years and almost 124000 miles. With that said the new 2014 FJR is starting to look very good. See my previous post.

Now if you were to ask my WIFE, she would get rid on my DR650 as she does not like me to ride in the back country by myself. Note: I do a lot of and enjoy riding alone.

 

[Rich]

No matter what any of the manufacturers make, there are endless threads where people talk about the bike and say it wouldn't suck if X were different, but with X the way it is, it's terrible and the company offering it is an idiot. Then other people say they like X the way it is but the manufacturer really needs to change Y.

I'm sure that if anyone from Honda is reading this thread they are just rolling their eyes. This is what all motorcyclists say about every bike and they know it.

I wish some designer would come out with a notebook and write down my wish list, and make my dream bike. But they never do.

Yep, I see that with airplanes, also.

 

[vzshadow]

What I would like to see from Honda is a same price point true competitor to the FJR with the FJR weight. The ST1300 used to be that bike. Not any more. I would also like to see a 700/750 sport touring bike IE the NT 700 with a V-4 motor. I think the Cross Runner or the new VFR800 (Not available in the US) Would do it. As it is now I am on the fence about buying a new 2014 FJR for my long distance bike. It lies weight wise between the ST1300 and the NT700 at around 620lbs. Not to mention the horse power. If I was to do that the ST and the NT would go away (Downsize you know) Only problem is I have had a ST for over 20 years (ST1100 &1300) and am a bit partial to them. And the longer I keep the NT the more attached to it I become. If Honda brought in the CrossRunner both my NT and the Wee would go away as the CrossRunner would do most if not all that those two bike do for me. As it is now I am forced to keep what I have.:wink:

I agree that the FJR would make a nice ride, particularly with it's price point and recent upgrades.