HID Conversion information

[Phil Tarman]

Thanks for the correction, Brad! I'm much better at remembering things from way back in the past than I am in remembering things that happened today.

 

[larrylarry75]

Also,

If your pissed looking at my head light, then your AWARE of me, and thus I am a tad safer.
Scott

Hi Scott,

I understand you're wanting to make cagers aware of your presence but to be honest I don't agree that "pissing people off" is the best method. Casting a blinding light in someone's eyes has the potential to distract and possibly set someone up for an accident. I feel the same way when I hear Harley riders (and others) make the claim "loud pipes save lives." Both of these methods smack of bullying road manners; better to employ a more aggressive awareness of what others are doing rather than beat on them. Sorry to disagree so vehemently; just my take on it.

LL75

 

[Rich]

Hi Scott,

I understand you're wanting to make cagers aware of your presence but to be honest I don't agree that "pissing people off" is the best method. Casting a blinding light in someone's eyes has the potential to distract and possibly set someone up for an accident. I feel the same way when I hear Harley riders (and others) make the claim "loud pipes save lives." Both of these methods smack of bullying road manners; better to employ a more aggressive awareness of what others are doing rather than beat on them. Sorry to disagree so vehemently; just my take on it.

LL75

This is my take on the matter, also. For the same reason, I see no point in a louder horn. I've never developed an instinct to hit the horn in traffic, anyway. So no matter how loud my horn is it wouldn't be getting used. Back to the headlights, were I to change to HID's it'd be because the stock lights weren't illuminating things adequately. For the kind of riding I do, the condition of my eyesight, and where I drive, this is not the case. Now if I felt I needed to drive at 90+ MPH on unlighted roads at night, more light would be in order. But I don't need to bring attention to myself in any negative way in the minds of the other drivers. I find myself annoyed at the blinding lights visited me by others and don't feel a desire to replicate the same stress in others I'm sharing the road with.

 

[Builtdesign]

The solution for this was to either 1) install a headlight cutoff switch and keep it off until the bike is running then kick on the headlight/HID or 2) Bike in Neutral, press the starter button then turn the key on - this keeps the headlight from coming on - once the bike starts and your finger is off the starter button, the headlight/HID ignites.

The first option is the way to go. The second option you listed is not good for the motorcycle. After turning key on (with run/stop switch in run position) the bike takes 5-seconds to gather current information for the Fuel Ingection process. You'll see the engine light stay on for those couple seconds. This includes temp and baro pressure measurements. So this will not hurt your bike immediately, but over time your bike will not run optimally. Still I don't recommend ever starting the bike before the engine light goes off.

Also since HIDs draw more amps on warm-up than when running, the switch is a good idea so that extra juice is being pulled by the stator (w/ engine on) not just the battery.

 

[Bear]

I have a problem "pissing off cagers". True, HID Lights are a great technological advance but are not something one simply tacks on to one's bike. There are laws in our society which are, whether you agree with them or not, designed to insure public safety.When Honda comes out with a kit that allows the owner to fit Hid Lights to their bikes, one should not be allowed to do so. Illegal lights which blind oncoming traffic--even though they serve your needs, have no place on our public roads. Sorry, but your percieved needs do not apply--they are not legal. Until Honda makes a kit for HID lights, I will not use them. Motorcycling is dangerous enough as it is, and we do not need to make things more dangerous.

How different are those who promote the use of unauthorizes HID Lights from the people who promote the use of straight pipes under the guise of safety? Get a life. You are breaking the law. Personally, I don't care what rationale you are using, you are still breaking the law. The majority of us motorcyclists are law abiding. If you feel that you are above the law--fine. Don't ask me or other law abiding motorcyclists to approve.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Alex, if the HIDs have the same sharp upper cut-off of the low-beam, I'm not sure that they would create a problem. But I'd invite all of us to think carefully about what we're doing .... not only we "customize" our bikes, but in the way we discuss our perceptions of those alterations. Nobody's asking you or anyone else to endorse anything.

 

[JQL]

I have a problem "pissing off cagers". True, HID Lights are a great technological advance but are not something one simply tacks on to one's bike. There are laws in our society which are, whether you agree with them or not, designed to insure public safety.When Honda comes out with a kit that allows the owner to fit Hid Lights to their bikes, one should not be allowed to do so. Illegal lights which blind oncoming traffic--even though they serve your needs, have no place on our public roads. Sorry, but your percieved needs do not apply--they are not legal. Until Honda makes a kit for HID lights, I will not use them. Motorcycling is dangerous enough as it is, and we do not need to make things more dangerous.

How different are those who promote the use of unauthorizes HID Lights from the people who promote the use of straight pipes under the guise of safety? Get a life. You are breaking the law. Personally, I don't care what rationale you are using, you are still breaking the law. The majority of us motorcyclists are law abiding. If you feel that you are above the law--fine. Don't ask me or other law abiding motorcyclists to approve.

Legality depends on jurisdiction. What is legal in one Country or State could be illegal in another. My suggestion is you fit aftermarket items to you vehicle that are legal in your jurisdiction and do so in a way not to offend (where possible).

 

[Mellow]

As I stated above, you simply need to adjust your low beam as the cutoff is not as apparent when you put the bulbs in. The point of light is in a different location so you simply adjust the low beam level and they lights are then just fine. You won't be pissing anyone off. Are they brighter? Yes, that's the whole point. But, they are not like some cars where people replace the bulbs and never adjust the headlights..

I know guys that ride with their high beams on during the day, I even think I heard someone say a safety course suggested that.

Are they officially 'legal' ? No, but there are lots of things put on bikes that are also in that category so it's your choice to go this route or not. Some put car tires on their bikes, I'm not crazy about that idea myself but I'm open minded to the benefits if I see they are apparent and fit my needs.

I think I found an RF pouch to put the ballasts in so the noise won't interfere with my CB so I may be going back to HIDs.

Another benefit of them is they color of the lights - not the blue/purple color - but the ones 6k and under are very different from the typical yellow incandescent bulbs so in traffic your lights stand out just a little from the others, adding to the safety of looking different in traffic.

On almost all the trips I take, I end up riding early in the morning or late into the evening and will be out in the country looking for a campground so the aux HIDs I have are great for those situations where you need that extra usable light. When I had the HID headlights, I felt I no longer needed the aux lights as the bright light setting was a nice flood of the area ahead.

I would say at a minimum.. do the high beam bulb on the NT, you have the cheaper option of doing that and adding some great light when you really need it.

 

[RedLdr1]

Legality depends on jurisdiction. What is legal in one Country or State could be illegal in another.

Currently HID Headlight conversion kits are illegal for road use in the USA. That is due to they have not been approved for road use by the DOT / SAE at the Federal government level. Most ethical sellers slip in a little disclaimer saying their kit is only legal for "Off Road Use" somewhere in their very fine print. Ask any conversion kit seller who claims their kit is "legal" to provide the DOT / SAE approval info and enjoy the tap dance, or silence, that you will get...:rolleyes1:

 

[Mellow]

I have used HIDs on my ST1300 and NOT been flashed by oncoming cars however I've used OEM bulbs and HAVE been flashed by oncoming cars. It's all about how you aim your headlights. In a leaned in turn it doesn't matter what bulbs you run the basic physics of the situation means that part of the headlight may be in the eyes of oncoming cars, other than buying a BMW 1600 w/adaptive headlights, you can't do much about that.

Since I have run oem bulb, higher wattage bulbs and HIDs in my ST1300 I feel I can give a good review of the differences. OEM headlights pretty much suck on any motorcycle I've ever had. Higher wattage helps some but even doubling - which I also wouldn't advise due to wiring - isn't double the output.

HIDs are phenomenal when it comes to the light output. If you've never used them you just don't know and you would be truly impressed.

However, as stated above, the ones you typically see that blind you on the road are the ones that people put in and that's it, they never adjust their headlights. As for the reflector working with HID bulbs it just depends on the application. Some do and some don't work well. On the Super Tenere someone used one bulb but it didn't work well until he found a longer bulb that put the point-of-light closer to the oem application - he stated that produced about as close to an oem pattern as he could tell AND with the similar cutoff as the oem bulb.

If you are worried about the bulb not being legal and passing inspections then don't use it, I never had a problem in TX.

I personally would rather have brighter usable lights than guess at what's in front of me but I won't tell anyone they must or must not do this, everyone here is an adult and can determine that for themselves.

I'm checking to see if ddm will do a discount or group buy for STO as the vvme kits many were getting would be a hassle to return if there were issues and ddm is in CA and have a better warranty so if I can get something arranged, I'll post up here.

 

[SCDAUB]

I guess my using the statement "pissing people off" was a bit off the mark. For the record, I get flashed when I have the HI and LOW on at the same time.... I have NOT been flashed when it is JUST on low.
I DID lower my headlight cutoff line a tad, to accommodate the much more intense light beam. Yes, I can see a lot more now. Yes, I am noticed a lot more now. No, they are not illegal in Georgia.

Scott

 

[Mellow]

I just added HIDs back to my ST1300, got a kit from DDM Tuning and there was much less noise than the previous VVME kit so that was great news.

There's a member on ST-Owners that added a timed delay for the headlight so he wouldn't have to worry about adding a headlight cut off switch. I'm going to get one of these for myself. He also added an inline switch but once you have it set I doubt you need that.

Here's the article
http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?97702-HID-Install-with-Time-Delay-Relay

 

[MAC]

Hi Guys, FWIW,

If you go to the AMA web site, " Rights" then State Laws you can find info on headlights in every state. What I see is there is a Federal Regulation " Title 49,571.108 on lights.
When modulating headlights came out "YEARS" ago some states didn't allow them. Looking at the AMA web I looked at about twenty states and the say, modulating headlights is permitted and some make refrance to this regulation above. I noticed one state said only clear lights are permitted.
This could be good info if you are thinking of changing your lights in any way.

 

[savantelite]

Been reading up on HiDs and found a site that sells a kit that includes:
The projector (main light housing)
Ballasts(energises bulbs)
Shroud(exterior cool looking housing for lens
wireing harnesses(who wants to spice?)
lens (I think it spreads the light in a half circle pattern)

but I am not a skilled retro fitter. What do you think of this possibilty.
http://www.theretrofitsource.com/pro...roducts_id=205

 

[Columbus]

Did anything ever come of this?
Also, I was curious, how long do HID's last compared to the OEM bulbs?

I have used HIDs on my ST1300 and NOT been flashed by oncoming cars however I've used OEM bulbs and HAVE been flashed by oncoming cars. It's all about how you aim your headlights. In a leaned in turn it doesn't matter what bulbs you run the basic physics of the situation means that part of the headlight may be in the eyes of oncoming cars, other than buying a BMW 1600 w/adaptive headlights, you can't do much about that.

Since I have run oem bulb, higher wattage bulbs and HIDs in my ST1300 I feel I can give a good review of the differences. OEM headlights pretty much suck on any motorcycle I've ever had. Higher wattage helps some but even doubling - which I also wouldn't advise due to wiring - isn't double the output.

HIDs are phenomenal when it comes to the light output. If you've never used them you just don't know and you would be truly impressed.

However, as stated above, the ones you typically see that blind you on the road are the ones that people put in and that's it, they never adjust their headlights. As for the reflector working with HID bulbs it just depends on the application. Some do and some don't work well. On the Super Tenere someone used one bulb but it didn't work well until he found a longer bulb that put the point-of-light closer to the oem application - he stated that produced about as close to an oem pattern as he could tell AND with the similar cutoff as the oem bulb.

If you are worried about the bulb not being legal and passing inspections then don't use it, I never had a problem in TX.

I personally would rather have brighter usable lights than guess at what's in front of me but I won't tell anyone they must or must not do this, everyone here is an adult and can determine that for themselves.

I'm checking to see if ddm will do a discount or group buy for STO as the vvme kits many were getting would be a hassle to return if there were issues and ddm is in CA and have a better warranty so if I can get something arranged, I'll post up here.

 

[XmarkF]

I know this is an old discussion but I just found some lite reading on the subject of HID legality in Queensland Australia (home). It may also be used as a DIY lobotomy.
The following was taken from http://www.opelaus.com/forums/showthread.php?29902-HID-Lights-Legal-Or-Not-QLD which was taken from some other site.. etc..

Australian Design Rule 13/00 ? Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles

6.2.9. Other requirements

The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).

And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...


Quote
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex 8).

So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:


Quote
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).


But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.

Quote
Australian Design Rule 45/01 ? Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations

45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.

45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.

45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates

Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).



Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....



Quote
Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners

6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS

6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.

6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:

6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....

6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;

6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:

6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,

6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.

6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;

6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;

6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;

6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;

6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.

6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.

Quote
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:

6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;

6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......


ADR 77 states the following items of interest:

Quote
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps


6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.

6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:

limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382

6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.

6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.

(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)

Quote
6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)



And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.

 

[Mellow]

Did anything ever come of this?
Also, I was curious, how long do HID's last compared to the OEM bulbs?

No discount, but I did get a couple of the ddm kits.. I fee they are not as good as the www.vvme.com kits. The packaging alone was just a bunch of white boxes that appeared assembled at the time of purchase, I even got the wrong parts and had to have them send me the right ones. The vvme kits are truly packaged better and the ONE box is labeled with the bulb type and temp...

 

[YKnot]

Do you (or anyone else) have pictures of the light pattern of a HID retrofit without the projector? I'm curious as to what the light pattern looks like.

I tried the simple HID conversion on my 2007 Burgman 400 and had mixed feelings about it, and eventually took it out. Like others, I didn't like the way the light sprayed out everywhere and the potential for blinding other drivers. But the Burgman 400 had dual headlights that were asymmetrical. The NT seems like you might be able to get away with the simple bulb replacement.

Chris

I feel that the HID conversions without a projector are not true conversions since the HID bulbs (and ballast) do not spread light properly without a projector.

I would love to see some pictures of someone doing this to their NT as I would like to do it myself.

Cheers!

 

[MichaelK]

I feel that the HID conversions without a projector are not true conversions since the HID bulbs (and ballast) do not spread light properly without a projector.

I would love to see some pictures of someone doing this to their NT as I would like to do it myself.

Cheers!

By chance I just posted some picts of my Denali lights (http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?7091-Denali-D2-at-night). My Low beam is a HID and my Highbeam is stock. You will see the differences.

Michael

 

[YKnot]

By chance I just posted some picts of my Denali lights (http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?7091-Denali-D2-at-night). My Low beam is a HID and my Highbeam is stock. You will see the differences.

Michael

Do you have any pictures of the actual conversion process or perhaps of the assembly as it is now?

Thanks for the pics!

-mark