NT700 vs. R1150RT

[teaspoon]

I had a coveted opportunity to sell my scratched NT700 to my insurance company a couple of months ago and couldn't pass it up. Now I'm on the hunt for the next bike, and pondering the possibilities.

I am concerned about the vibration that I had with the NT, my aching wrists, and tingling fingers, and considering stepping up to an ultra-smooth ST1300. I also think that blue BMW R1150RT is pretty sharp, and would fit my riding needs better the ST1300. Can anyone here comment on the vibrations of the boxer compared to the NT?

 

[EX Winger]

I won't get on a band wagon; Just do yourselfe a favor and google BMW R1150RT final drives systems and make y our own decision.

Eldon

 

[teaspoon]

Yeah, I've seen the final drive problems which I thought were primarily with the 1200. I've also run across many BMW advocates who never had problems. If you look for problems with a particular model of anything on the internet you can be overwhelmed. You have to recognize the fact that you are looking through a magnifying glass. I suspect the majority of BMW owners are still happy with their choice.

After saying all that, I am just shopping. In the end, I will probably be loyal to Honda and jump on a local Craigslist bargain.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Teaspoon, I love the R1xxxRT for their ergos and for everything else I know about them. Except for the final drive issues. A significant percentage of bikes in the Iron Butt Rally in 2001, 2003, 2005 had final drive issues. Granted, many people do not have any, and I've had final drive issues with my NT (although those issues were maintenance deficiency related). And for those of us in the west, the BMW dealer network has gotten pretty thin.

 

[Miairhead]

I've not noticed any vibration on the NT that is an issue for me. That being said, BMW are great bikes in most cases, (except the 'C'), Take your time and ride one, I think most dealers I know of let you ride the used BMW's hoping your become a Beemie. One issue is be sure there is a shop near to fix what you don't want to do yourself. Go to BMWMOA and BMWRA, check out the forums there, I think your looking at what is an oilhead http://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?14-Oilheads.

 

[vzshadow]

How widely have you looked? There are some fantastic bikes out there.

 

[Chuck 500]

Replacing your NT with another is certainly an option. For wrist fatigue, you mention aching wrists, consider adding a 1" riser to take weight off your wrists. I added a riser that is 1" up and 1" back. It alleviated both wrist and lower back issues.

Good luck and of course, keep the shiny side up,

Chuck

 

[RedLdr1]

My concern with BMW is their dealer network, or rather their lack of a dealer network. See Here, for a .pdf of every dealer in the USA. I have three choices in Georgia...you have four in Tennessee. That is just too thin on the ground for me for something I will want the dealership to maintain.... When I had my R1100R, back in the late 90's, there were several more choices that have long since closed or dropped BMW.

 

[Comanche]

My concern with BMW is their dealer network, or rather their lack of a dealer network. . .

That is my main objection too.

Consider the model year of the R1150RT. Though BMW vehemently denied there were any problems with the final drive, they did change the design. The first change was with venting. They added vents to the housing and that seemed to take care of most of the problems. I have not heard of any final drive issues since they've changed the design. I understand they've changed the design again since the advent of the "wet heads" in the GS three years ago, and two years ago with the RT. Of course, there are very few high mileage bikes that new.

Having said that, there are cures for the vibration on the NT. Mine is so minimal now that I truly don't notice it. I added HeliBars (2 1/2 up, and 3 1/2 inches back) which puts me in the "sit up and beg" position. There is little of my body leaning on the grips now. Also, I added Grip Puppies (there are other closed cell foam grip covers available that do the same thing) and finally I added 1 pound end weights on the handlebars.

 

[Gearmaker]

That is my main objection too.

I agree with Comanche's comments regarding BMW final drive problems and NT's handle bar vibration. No bike is perfect even though ST1100&1300 had the smoothest motors they had their own issues. The BMW R1150 motor has vibration under 2500RPM range but becomes smooth and more powerful as you increase both. If you are looking for improved weather protection and comfort the BMW should be considered. The argument of fewer dealership altought valid, is somewhat debatable due to the fact very few Honda dealers ever seen or worked on NT700.
To minimize handle bar vibration add HeliBars, Grip Puppies and Vibranator(Handlebar reduction bar end because they work).
It still be your decision and depends on what fits your need and wallet. Good Luck.
John

 

[teaspoon]

I've considered other bikes - Yamahas, the Triumph Trophy, the ST1300 - but haven't looked deeply into anything except the ST. The R1150RT has a visual appeal that I don't get with modern Hondas (that means anything made past 1985) and gets good marks for handling and maintenance. With a quick glance on Ebay I see drive units for about $300, which is much better than the $1000+ costs that I have read about. I've certainly never ridden anything but the few Hondas I have owned and I've had a blast on them all. I had all of a minute's bad experience on a friend's trail bike when several years later I rode my new CM250 Custom out of the prep bay and into Friday afternoon traffic. When you are 18 years old you can do stupid things like that.

I enjoyed my NT700 and will probably return to it. The model is a very good fit for my riding needs. I've seen low mileage examples near $4000 and these will become more common. A member of the NT-Owners had a silver bike north of Atlanta with 7800 miles, ABS, Honda top box, new tires and service, for $4300. That's a bargain. With patience, others can be found. For now, I can enjoy window shopping for the next bike.

I had installed grip puppies and they helped a lot. I had started shopping for longer handle bars as an alternative to risers. With either of those, I will want a taller windshield. I liked the Parabellum because it looked the most like OEM while providing extra width. These things may not be an issue on another bike.

In the near term, I want to upgrade my visibility (to others) and protection in the crash. I need to upgrade the lighting on my Nighthawk with flashy, shimmering thingy-bobs. I've picked up a bright yellow Tourmaster jacket and full-face helmet. Swallow your coffee first and then imagine a fat Mighty Morphin Power Ranger. I still want new gloves and armored pants.

Back to the BMW - can anyone with a strong sensitivity to vibration compare the R1150RT with an NT?

 

[tawilke46]

I added bar risers, grip puppies, and a Throttlemeister with the heavy bar ends. Also think more miles on the NT motor smoothes it out a little bit. Vibration is not a problem with me on the NT. I do notice some blurring in the mirrors at certain rpm's.

 

[Phil Tarman]

With a quick glance on Ebay I see drive units for about $300, which is much better than the $1000+ costs that I have read about.

You can get a final drive for even less. A friend of mine who had always wanted a BMW bought a 3-yr-old R1150R that had 17,000 miles on it. He also bought a year's extended warranty. Two weeks after that warranty ran out he called me and said he was getting a "funny" feeling on the bike and asked if I'd ride it. I only rode it a block but told him I could feel something too and that I hoped it wasn't the "dreaded final drive death."

Naturally, it was, and the dealer said it was too bad his extended warranty had expired. They priced him a rebuild at $1700 and told him he also needed to replace his rear brake disk and caliper. We neither one could see anything wrong with the brake, so he started looking for a final drive on EBay. He found one and learned that all the R bikes didn't share the same final drive. It took him about three months before he found the one he needed, for only $200. It came off a bike that had 73,000 miles when the rider hit a deer. David and I figured that if the drive hadn't failed in 73,000 miles, it was probably a good one, so he bought it. It's still going strong, although he did have major issues with his CAN-Bus system and had to replace the wiring harness.

I'm not a person with a strong sensitivity to vibration, but I haven't had any issues with the vibration on my NT and didn't have any with either of my Concours (both '99 models) even though one of my friends told me my first one was the buzziest bike he'd ever ridden.

All that said, I can sure understand your wanting an RT. They are my favorite of any bike I've ever ridden (for a whole 8 miles!), but since I ride a lot in country west and north of here, and there's one dealer each in Utah and Montana and none in Wyoming, and I don't have the money to spend on a newish one, I'm thinking I'll stay with a used NT when and if mine wears out. Good luck!

 

[charlie b]

I was close to the same kind of boat a while ago. I was considering replacing my Goose.

After much research and thought and riding I had also narrowed down to an ST or RT. Keep in mind that I do all my own maintenance and repair work, so I was not concerned with dealer networks. I looked around and found videos and other resources on the RT for all the maitenance activities I might have to perform, including changing out final drives and replacement parts costs.

I had narrowed it down to the RT for the simple reason that they have the best wind protection out there other than a Gold Wing. They also weigh a little less than the ST (but not much). I even found one that a fellow here in town was selling since he had just bought a new RT (which was in the shop for the electronic suspension recall).

The down side to the ST is that they haven't made any of them for a few years now and the ones I really were interested in were older and most had many, many miles on them.

But, I did not buy either. I decided to do some more mods on the Goose and keep it.

If you want a more modern bike and don't mind the money/insurance costs then the more modern bikes, like the FJR, Connie, and Triumph's are very capable bikes. I just did not want a high hp bike and the larger cost.

FWIW, if the Guzzi Norge did not have instrument console problems (on some bikes) I probably would have bought one of them since they would outperform the R1150RT's and the newer Norge will do as well or better than the R1200RT's of the previous generation. The recent versions of the RT upped the power and suspension significantly (and the Norge weather protection isn't as good as any of them). But, again, if you don't do your own maintenance then dealers are sparse.

If you are having the dealer service the bike then I would stay away from the RT unless you can get a warranty for it.

 

[JohnC]

From what I have been reading, the BMW final drive problems are across all of the shaft models after the /7's.

 

[Phil Tarman]

I'm pretty sure they're across all the Boxers, but I haven't heard about K-bikes having the problem as much. Still don't know if I'd take the chance.

 

[charlie b]

The K bikes did have some issues too. It also seems more prevalent with the heavier loaded bikes. What I found was that it is related to an assembly alignment issue and could be 'fixed' by a good mechanic. It also seemed to occur in the 20-50,000 mile range on the bikes. If not 'fixed' then it would happen again with a new box. This is not absolute, just what I found from going through several hundred posts on the issue. The four RT owners I know have not had an issue with theirs (3 have well over 50k miles on their bikes).

 

[bicyclist]

Anyone contemplating purchase of an R1150 should familiarize himself with clutch slave cylinder issues, brake servo issues, final drive issues, etc. If you do your own work and stay on top of maintenance, OK. If you just ride the thing and turn it over to someone else for maintenance, be prepared to spend a lot of money.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Charlie, I can't think of the guy's name, but my buddy with the R1150S said that there was a guy who was famous for adjusting the final drives so they'd last forever. He said that some people would send their brand-new final drive units to this guy for adjustment before they ever tried to do any serious distance riding.

 

[bicyclist]

Phil, the guy you're talking about is probably Anton Largiader.