Pannier Latch Failure - Not Only The Lid Has This Issue

[mikesim]

Y'all are learning way more about plastic part design than you had intended.

I don't exactly recall seeing the taper when I did my pannier work, but there is a certain amount of taper that is needed for the injection-molding process, so that the part releases and can be ejected from the tool.

One other lessons-learned is that if you put a very small counterbore on the inside diameter of the screw boss, it helps prevent a crack from initiating from the screw cutting threads into the plastic.

Anyone here want to start up our own motorcycle company? I'll be the engineer of the plastic bits.

Thanks for the plastic molding education! It also seems that the plastic Honda chose for the panniers is more brittle and cracks easier than many of the plastics that I have dealt with in the automotive field. I know that a certain rigidity is required for the panniers so that may have been the best material available. Us EE's never learned nuthin' about plastics :redface:

Mike

 

[DirtFlier]

The vibration level on most motorcycles going down the road far exceeds what occurs in cars. My other gripe has to do with the latch mechanism being semi-exposed to the elements. I use silicone spray as the lubricant and it still gets dirty with road grit.

 

[Sojourner]

Well, ain't this fun? I now have issues with the other pannier, the right side. Didn't want to latch. Come to find out, one of the plastic screw bosses holding the latch mechanism is broken off.

So I may be ripping everything back apart again and epoxying/JB welding all of the bosses. (may be a good rainy weekend project?)

Right now I'm googling those external Southco locking draw latches.....or other ideas.....

 

[Brillot2000]

Well, ain't this fun? I now have issues with the other pannier, the right side. Didn't want to latch. Come to find out, one of the plastic screw bosses holding the latch mechanism is broken off.

So I may be ripping everything back apart again and epoxying/JB welding all of the bosses. (maybe a good rainy weekend project?)

Right now I'm googling those external Southco locking draw latches.....or other ideas.....

I am looking to use some Loctite Hysol E-20HP that I have lying around for this repair. I will start the teardown of NaTalie later on this evening.

If I were to go with the Southco latch option. I would use and recommend the small ones, V7 - Over-Center Series Latches.

 

[Brillot2000]

Right now I'm googling those external Southco locking draw latches.....or other ideas.....

I found the Southco latch that I recommended in black on Amazon for about $27 each. Southco, Over-Center Series Latches, V7-10-115-50.

There's also an economy version available for about half price. Owach Industrial Hardware - 3" Draw Latch for Saddlebags Black With Lock.

There are a couple of options for anyone interested.

 

[Sojourner]

Thanks, Bruce, I already had both of those bookmarked on Amazon. Great minds think alike.

As for number and placement, I would go with 1 in the top-center position as Charlie did here:
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?4812-Broken-saddlebag-lid-latch/page5
Those latches are rated for 75#. If you put a metal backing plate behind the latch hardware, I think 1 latch would be sufficient. I don't know that the front one in picture #4 is all that necessary.

Although I bookmarked these, my current thinking is that I'm going to go in, remove both panniers again, and just do a whole mess of JB-Weld work around all of the screw bosses (and inside a couple of somewhat-stripped ones), and try to get the original latches working as intended. If that still doesn't work, it's the smaller Southco's.

McMaster-Carr also has them for $18.29, all with the same key no matter who orders them:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#6694a61/=1dsupqp
Don't know what their shipping is, but I'll piggy-back them on an order at work next time I order from them.

 

[Brillot2000]

Thanks, Bruce, I already had both of those bookmarked on Amazon. Great minds think alike.

Yeah.

Well, things went from bad to worse for me. After taken everything apart this evening and cleaning everything up. No amount of epoxy can fix these screw bosses as they nearly completely disintegrated before my eyes. I am quite disappointed, to say the least.

Looks like need to look at the Southco option now. I am surprised that McMaster's price is quite affordable. Usually, they stick it to you. I just as well order the mounting hardware from them to make the order with it.

 

[Brillot2000]

Thanks, Bruce, I already had both of those bookmarked on Amazon. Great minds think alike.

As for number and placement, I would go with 1 in the top-center position as Charlie did here:
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?4812-Broken-saddlebag-lid-latch/page5
Those latches are rated for 75#. If you put a metal backing plate behind the latch hardware, I think 1 latch would be sufficient. I don't know that the front one in picture #4 is all that necessary.

Although I bookmarked these, my current thinking is that I'm going to go in, remove both panniers again, and just do a whole mess of JB-Weld work around all of the screw bosses (and inside a couple of somewhat-stripped ones), and try to get the original latches working as intended. If that still doesn't work, it's the smaller Southco's.

McMaster-Carr also has them for $18.29, all with the same key no matter who orders them:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#6694a61/=1dsupqp
Don't know what their shipping is, but I'll piggy-back them on an order at work next time I order from them.

I think that I found something that might work out better on Amazon for about $14 - SS 304 Mini Draw Latch, Plain Finish, Key Locking, 2 1/2" Length. Simpler in construction, twist to draw latch close and key lock.

Here's a link to the manufacturer's specs - PN-51 Latches Specifications

I think that I am going this route. Order placed with Amazon. These should be here on Sunday.

 

[JeffMeunier]

Making the plastic towers about twice as thick would have solved a lot of ills and the cost increase would have been nil.

I completely agree with you on that. One of my towers cracked a couple weeks ago to the point that there were pieces of plastic that separated. I got some 2-part epoxy and glued it all back together, then I added another layer of epoxy all around the towers to thicken them up and a little bit inside to give the screw a little extra to grip. It fixed up nicely.

 

[MCG]

I'm in the same boat. I knew that one of my latches on the RHS was not latching and had it on my radar to disassemble and lube the mechanism. But, before going out on a ride this week, I noticed a latch on the LHS was loose. When I opened the bag, I saw that the latch had fallen off and the tower broke and now it will not stay closed. The bungee cord is not a long-term solution.




I had already applied epoxy to make it sturdier, but that only lasted about year. So now I'm looking for the permanent solution - new latches. Please keep us updated on your installation.

Maryann

 

[Brillot2000]

I only got one of the Sugatsune Locking Draw Latches that I ordered earlier today. This evening I working on installing on the righthand side saddlebag. After a lot of thinking and trying a few ways before I drilled the first hole. I came up the most optimal location where to install the latch at. Finding the exact location to place the catch was a bit more tricky. The OEM latch assembly was removed completely and was not used any further.







I decided to use 1/8" pop rivets to secure everything into place. I placed a small aluminum backing plate to help with the structural strength. Please visit my photo album for more images of this installation, Saddlebag Latch.

Please be advised that full removal of the saddlebag was required to perform this installation. Also that I have to make a couple of aluminum backing plates off of some 1/16" thick material that I had laying around the shop.

I will probably replace the latch on the lefthand saddlebag at a later time when the other latch comes in.

Let me know if you have further questions.

 

[Sojourner]

Wow, don't check the site for a couple days and look what happens.... Nice work.

Are you planning on keeping the seat release?

One of the other folks who removed their latch system completely and went with external locks removed his seat latch as well. That one I haven't gotten my head around yet, because I thought the latch was necessary to keep the seat in place. Is it only held in place by the 3 hooks (I think) and gravity, and it's really free to move if someone just gave it a tug up and rearward?

The Sugatsune latch looks 'functional', we'll say. My brain is leaning towards the Southco just because it looks smoother.

 

[mikesim]

Brillot, about how long did it take you to do one side? I'm still trying to get myself psyched up to do it.

Mike

 

[Sojourner]

This one looks interesting, too, but is not a fail-safe as the draw latch. The draw latch is stainless and this one is zinc alloy....looks die-cast. If you open the PDF they even show it being used on a motorcycle top case.
https://www.sugatsune.com/products/productdetails.cfm?catid=3&subcatid=6&productid=BL-70Y
https://www.amazon.com/Sugatsune-BL-70Y-Box-Latch-Lock/dp/B00365U63C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532389694&sr=8-1

At least Sugatsune is Japanese, so quality should be better than most Chinese stuff.

If anyone is looking at the Southco latches, the last post on this thread has 2 pictures of a couple in chrome:
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?10137-Pannier-latch-repair&highlight=southco

If anyone is looking for pictures of the saddlebag carnage:
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?5447-Side-pannier-parts-number-confirmation-and-some-info&p=76531&viewfull=1#post76531
That guy ordered a new pannier panel for his NT.

 

[Sojourner]

I liked the looks of a square latch that I'd seen in an earlier broken-pannier thread, one with a combination lock, which was supposedly not in production anymore:
http://www.franzenint.com/?product=1470-1-combination-locking-drawbolt

If found this, which looks similar but keyed.....
https://www.ebay.com/itm/153010246549
https://www.amazon.com/LOC024-FRANZEN-CAST-LOCK-BLACK/dp/B00DJZI7MQ/

The only thing is that these are case locks for things like guitars or computer travel cases. Not sure how well they'd hold up to weather and debris. That said, the Sigatsune lock has a similar Samsonite-style key, too.

Here's another option.....note that it's shipped from China....getting a little large at 3.7" long though:
https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Concealed-Toggle-Safety-Locking/dp/B0759RMFGN/

 

[Brillot2000]

Wow, don't check the site for a couple days and look what happens.... Nice work.

Are you planning on keeping the seat release?

One of the other folks who removed their latch system completely and went with external locks removed his seat latch as well. That one I haven't gotten my head around yet, because I thought the latch was necessary to keep the seat in place. Is it only held in place by the 3 hooks (I think) and gravity, and it's really free to move if someone just gave it a tug up and rearward?

The Sugatsune latch looks 'functional', we'll say. My brain is leaning towards the Southco just because it looks smoother.

I am not one to fool around and think about getting this done.

I liked the way the Southco Units looked too, however, the extra 1/2" and 2 more mounting holes had me concerned. There are no real flat surfaces to speak of on these two surfaces, mostly contours. The geometry at which the latch and catch would meet up was a big concern of mine. The shorter length and the hooked latch end gave me more flexibility with the angular alignment.

I have not gotten to the lefthand side yet. I would like to keep the seat latch release if all possible. I will look into that more closely later on.

The latches on much of the early motorcycle saddlebags and top boxes were not much different as these Sugatsune. Kind of a retro look to me...

 

[Brillot2000]

Brillot, about how long did it take you to do one side? I'm still trying to get myself psyched up to do it.

Mike

I think it took me about 3 hours total from teardown to back together again. I had to figure quite a few things out during the process, so that has to be taken into consideration too. Also, I was only able to do only one side

Having a top box, Givi or otherwise will add to the efforts before you get the saddlebag assembly separated from the bike. Once you get it off things will move along at a good pace.

If you have all the tools and hardware ready. I do not see it taking any more than 2 hours for both sides.

I have figured out most of the difficult things for everyone if they follow my recipe with the latch that I selected. It will go much easier if one were to use the installation template that I have attached to this post.

Cut it out and tape it to the saddlebag.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

Be sure to tape the lid firmly shut before taping on the template and drilling the holes. This will ensure the lid closes tightly when the latch is locked into position. Failure to do so may result in the holes being placed in the wrong locations thus affecting how tight the lid closes.

 

[Sojourner]

I always get a kick out of the old side cases that looked like Samsonite luggage:


If I go with the Sugatsune, maybe I even add even more hardware.....a couple of pad-eyes for bungee tie-downs....
https://www.amazon.com/Docooler-10pcs-Bungee-Screws-Rigging/dp/B01JU98V84/

 

[Brillot2000]

I always get a kick out of the old side cases that looked like Samsonite luggage:


If I go with the Sugatsune, maybe I even add even more hardware.....a couple of pad-eyes for bungee tie-downs....
https://www.amazon.com/Docooler-10pcs-Bungee-Screws-Rigging/dp/B01JU98V84/

Let me know if you want a Concours of that vintage. A buddy of mine has 2005 with only about 5,000 miles on it. He's been trying to sell it for several years now.

 

[Sojourner]

So many tempting bikes. I have this BMW F800GT only 3 miles from me, too....
https://muskegon.craigslist.org/mcy/d/bmw-f800gt-2013/6613106155.html

That Kawasaki is a classic, and a liter is plenty for me, and I'd really prefer a smooth inline 4 to our V-twins. The engineer in me would have a hard time going back to carburetors, I think, though..... We've even got a catalytic converter on our NTs that reduces that start-up smell.

There is no perfect bike, is there.....which is why we need one of each.....