Suspension issues

[mntsansea_girl]

I took a Total Control class and they checked over my front suspension and found it was very very bouncy. Not what you want on the road. Has anyone else had this issue?
Is it inherent to the set up on the NT?
Suggestions to what to do: "change the springs and add Gold Valves for the front forks".

Any other ideas are welcome.

It goes like a pogo stick. Not good.
Thanks.

 

[charlie b]

Yes, it is a littly 'springy', but, it is a good balance for the road.

I would not mind stiffening it up a little bit though.

 

[charlie b]

I do like the adjustable preload on the back, but, it doesn't change the shock damping. And on the front you can't change either.

I think the question is, where can you get aftermarket shock bits and do they improve things?

Are the front shocks cartridge type or oil and valve type?

 

[Phil Tarman]

The gold valves and spring change is a good idea. I don't know if I'll ever spend that much money though. It would cost you a bit over $100 for springs, and I'm thinking gold valves from Progressive run a bit over $200. But, there aren't any spring options or Gold Valves listed for the NT700V.

 

[Phil Tarman]

spend your way to happiness...

I don't know if you could find the way to do that...if Progressive can't help, who can?

 

[mntsansea_girl]

Race Tech. I need to call them and see what they can do for me.
Wanted to see if anyone else had an issue with very soft front suspension.

 

[Phil Tarman]

Race Tech. I need to call them and see what they can do for me.
Wanted to see if anyone else had an issue with very soft front suspension.

They don't have anything listed either. :-(

 

[RenoGuy]

Did my first two up ride on the NT today and experienced even more nose dive than without a passenger. I agree a stiffer front shock or other suggested cure would be appreciated. Please share any info vendors suggest. I know my BMW F650 GS did not dive like the NT.

Wayne

 

[ARKNT]

I many times do things different than most. I found the front end to be stiff, esp over expansion joints on the freeway.
I have put in shorter spring spacers and then changed the fork oil from original 10w to 5w.
I am pretty happy with the front end now although it has been very hot lately (>100 deg) and the thinner oil shows. With the simple damper rod forks it is a trade-off but it is working for me.
I am interested in better suspension and more adjustability but I don't think I'd be willing to pay what it would cost for a fork upgrade and a better rear shock for the riding I do. If fast and/or track days are your thing it might be a good investment.

ARKNT

 

[spacetiger]

I had posted a few thoughts:
http://www.nt-owners.org/forums/showthread.php?1086-Suspension-Sag/page2

Did they use the term bouncy? If so, that term doesn't make me 1st think of the springs, it would make me 1st think about your fork oil - is it the correct level, should you swap to a 10wt oil (I'm guessing you may have 3 kinds of oil on stock at your local Honda dealer, let me know if you want a link to walk you through all kinds of oil descriptors).

You should at least consider setting your preload before swaping springs. Your weight may work fine with your current springs if you set the preload correctly.

post back what you do and how it works out. You paid for the class to be a better rider, so there is no going back...

For me, my separate pieces are on there way back. I am fitting a CBR600 F4 front end on the PC so I can get tunability on the rebounding and compression. I'll post how that goes as it is a swap that should make the NT a sweeter ride too in case someone wants to try this as well.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ipcrc/photos/album/1856438823/pic/1108342011/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

Jerry

 

[RedLdr1]

As John suggested I have used a different weight fork oil in the past and it can make a difference. The issue I found was small 5W changes, like 10W to 15W, at a time made little difference and it was hard to "feel" the difference. On my FJ1200 I ended up with 30W motor oil and that was a huge improvement over the OEM 10W fork oil... Going back to 10W during a rebuild showed that difference really quick! Since we don't have a drain plug for the fork oil it can be a PITA to change, you'll need a good suction gun, rags, and I suggest a cheap rifle cleaning kit with a rod long enough to reach the bottom...and a lot of patience...

Could real stiff springs lead to wheel damage? If there is no give?

I suspect you could see some serious tire damage, before the wheel itself, if you go to stiff. My biggest concern would be internal tire sidewall damage that you can't see that leads to a failure.... But I have no idea how strong the Honda wheels really are as I try hard to avoid testing them!

 

[mntsansea_girl]

I have gotten this info from a friend of a friend that works on bikes.
" I would have somebody check the fluid level before spending any money. Or possibly try a 20 wt fork oil. This will not fix the spring rate but may calm the bounce"

I don't like nose diving either and it normally only happens when I have brake hard.

Mntsansea_girl

 

[spacetiger]

I would think 20wt is too heavy. It sounds like your preload setting is not right on the bike. This can make a BIG difference, you should look into getting this done. This has nothing to do with "racing" or draging knees going around corners. Its about maintaining control of your bike while riding.

http://www.gostar-racing.com/information/motorcycle_suspension_set-up.htm

Don't use motor oil, its not made for this application. I mean no offense to anyone in making this statement.

Jerry

 

[RedLdr1]

Don't use motor oil, its not made for this application. I mean no offense to anyone in making this statement.

You are correct, it is not.... But waaay back when I used it that was all that was really available and it was a common practice. It is a lot easier to do it right now then it used to be....

 

[spacetiger]

There are times when too much information can confuse things, but risking this, here is one of the best sites I have run accross:
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm

I cannot stress enough the need to set the preload correctly. I believe this is most important if you are heavy (like me, I am 205) so you maintain proper riding control. Using heavy oil (20wt) to slow the damping down alot vs. setting your preload correctly also risks problems in other areas. For example: heavy weight oil will cause slow response in for damping, so all small bumps are felt as hash feedback through the steering stem. If you feel these, imagine what they are doing to your head bearings. Honda still uses ball bearings. They are caged for ease of installation, but they are not roller bearings. That means the loads you are feeling are going to create small flat spots on the ball bearings.... This causes leads to other costly and possibly dangerous issues if they go too far.

Jerry

Jerry

 

[mat0000]

I find the suspension balance of ours NT nearly perfect.

 

[mntsansea_girl]

thanks for all the links to gear informational sites. I will try adjusting the preload ( I am assuming when you all speak about this, it means to adjust the rear suspension?, that nice little knob that clicks...). Ok, I am not the most edumacated about bikes.. Bear with me.
I am way out of my comfort zone here. Life gives you a motorcycle, must embrace it and get in zone with it...

Thanks again for all the info.
May just adjust the preload and have to get 8000 mile oil change and have them change out the front fork oil to a little heavier wt oil...

 

[charlie b]

I started out with way too much preload on the back (I weighed 230 back then). I rode it for a few hundred miles that way, then decided it was a bit harsh. So, I took out all the preload. It felt a bit soft, ie, I think I hit the bump stop, or at least came close. I then added some until it 'felt' right. I would crank it in one half turn at a time. I think I have one turn on it (maybe two). Now that I am under 200 I may adjust it again.

While the bike has a lot of dive on braking it has very good damping, even through 'bouncy' corners.

I think if I tried to solve the dive problem, the spring rate would be far too harsh.

 

[bodgerbloke52]

No need for any expense.
1 Take 50mm off the fork spring spacers.
2 Use sae 5 fork oil.


Job done, vast impovement, costs nothin.

Roger

 

[ARKNT]

mntsansea girl,
I have been reading this thread with interest since I would like to be able to adjust my NT's suspension a little more to my liking also.
To really adjust suspension correctly can be difficult. It is hard to describe what is happening to someone else because different adjustments interact with the others. For instance if you were to change springs or the preload (spacer length) the dampening may need to be changed to compensate.

The NT has pretty basic suspension. Damper rod forks and pre-load only adjustment on the rear shock. I have been reading Race Tech's suspension bible the last couple of days trying to learn what may be possible and why. Race Tech has a "shock clock" data monitoring system to help them see what changes need to be made instead of trying to decipher what the rider is saying the bike needs.

You have mentioned a lot of dive. If that is on braking that is going to be difficult to get rid of with the damper rod forks. If changes are made to get rid of dive during hard braking then they would be too stiff for other times.
I have adjusted preload (spacer length) and oil viscosity on mine (similar to bodgerbloke52). To give much more adjustibility I would think you will need internal changes like cartridge emulators or something like them but there does not seem to be much out there pre-made for the NT. Another option is forks from a different bike but that is a bigger change than I am wanting to try.
The rear suspension is another story.

ARKNT