A friend of mine used to say, "and people in hell want ice water." Wanting and being able afford is what kept me standing in front of a Ford dealership in 1964 when the original Mustang came out. I could only look thru the window and dream. No coin, no car. I ended up buying the 100,000+ mileage 49 Chevy. I suspect the same thing happened many times in Delhi at the HD dealer. Look at a 1200, but buy a 150.
Test rode a Harley today
- Thread starter Bear
- Start date
Warren
2
Not much larger than the Royal Enfields that sell quite well there.
DirtFlier
Site Supporter
The 350 Bullet is a step or two above the typical 100-150 cc scooter plus they've been making it locally for about a bazillion years so parts, new & used, are readily available and I'd venture a guess that many fix-anything shops can get one going again after a mechanical problem.
In the 80s-90s, the Honda CG100-125-150 was the best seling motorcycle in Brasil with over 90% of the sales. CG is short for Cargo so it came with racks, front & back. A Brasilian friend told me the CG was the new mule and much cheaper to buy and feed! Honda has had a motorcycle factory outside of Manaus since around 1978 but since the late-90s they have competition from Yamaha and a few Chinese companies that built factories in Brasil. Their tax on imported vehicles was around 50% so building locally is the only practical way.
From Wikipedia: "The CG125 was developed from the CB125 for developing countries' markets. The two models were very similar, with many parts in common. The main difference was in the top ends: the CB had an overhead cam(OHC). One fault with many Honda OHC engines of that era (generally denoted CB), was that they had a tendency to wear the camshaft bearings if oil changes were skipped. The CG engine was developed specifically to address this problem (amongst others) as Honda realised that riders in developing countries performed little or no preventative maintenance. To make the bike more reliable with minimal servicing, the CG125 uses overhead valves(OHV) with pushrods, a washable foam air filter, and fully enclosed chain. The fully enclosed chain was dropped in 2004."
Our idea of motorcycling is quite different than I've seen in other parts of the world!
In the 80s-90s, the Honda CG100-125-150 was the best seling motorcycle in Brasil with over 90% of the sales. CG is short for Cargo so it came with racks, front & back. A Brasilian friend told me the CG was the new mule and much cheaper to buy and feed! Honda has had a motorcycle factory outside of Manaus since around 1978 but since the late-90s they have competition from Yamaha and a few Chinese companies that built factories in Brasil. Their tax on imported vehicles was around 50% so building locally is the only practical way.
From Wikipedia: "The CG125 was developed from the CB125 for developing countries' markets. The two models were very similar, with many parts in common. The main difference was in the top ends: the CB had an overhead cam(OHC). One fault with many Honda OHC engines of that era (generally denoted CB), was that they had a tendency to wear the camshaft bearings if oil changes were skipped. The CG engine was developed specifically to address this problem (amongst others) as Honda realised that riders in developing countries performed little or no preventative maintenance. To make the bike more reliable with minimal servicing, the CG125 uses overhead valves(OHV) with pushrods, a washable foam air filter, and fully enclosed chain. The fully enclosed chain was dropped in 2004."
Our idea of motorcycling is quite different than I've seen in other parts of the world!
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DirtFlier
Site Supporter
JustPassinThru - you pressing your nose against the glass to view the new Mustang was common for a youngster but you'd grow up and eventually have the money to buy a car. In many 3rd world countries people can go their whole lives without owning even a basic car so 2-wheeled transportation is the norm.
You should never be punished for quoting Shakespeare!
Phil all those gold plated acorn nuts are what's called a "showbike kit"
I know a fellow here in Dallas that has a Harley Deuce with over 200K on it
Those bikes could definitely have been identified as showbikes. I was impressed that the doctors and the orthodontist were apparently also riders. Anybody covering the miles they were covering could hold their head up in any crowd.
OP
OP
Bear
2
The doctor's parking spaces at the Togus VA Medical Center are primarily H-D and an occasional GW (These are spaces specifically designated for motorcycles) My primary care doctor and my optamologist both ride Harleys.
OP
OP
Bear
2
Tried out a 4Cyl Turbo Mustang---pretty fast. Still prefer my 07 Shelby GT with a 500HP V-8.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2019
- Messages
- 148
- Location
- near Harrow, Ontario Canada
- Bike
- '83 BMW R100RS & 3 XS650s
I rented a Harley for a week on a family holiday in Phoenix a couple of years ago.
Frankly, it was far smoother and quieter than I had expected it to be so it seemed as though H-D had quelled the vibration and noise issues. It was however, much slower than any other motorcycle I had ever ridden. It was NOT easy to get a away from a clown in a cage - and yet, in my experience, even a humble 400cc Honda commuter bike could easily blow off any car that had ever challenged me and my other bikes (presently a couple of 1970s Yamaha XS650s and a Honda ST1300) are in a totally different league in terms of power and acceleration - while none of them could be called "performance" bikes.
Aside from the on-road performance (which I could charitably characterize only as...stately), what truly surprised me was the extraordinarily poor ergonomics.
Now, I am definitely not a Harley guy, but the thing was cripplingly uncomfortable with a seat that was too low, pegs that were too high and too far forward and bars that required shoulder surgery to reach in a reasonable way. No normally proportioned human being could possibly ride that thing in comfort. Also, the danged gauges were far too small and far away from the rider's eyes to be clearly legible (and NO, I do not normally need glasses to ride my bikes). Finally, the switches were too small and not at all intuitively labelled, so I never seemed to know what would happen when I pushed a button.
Overall, it had the feel of something that had been designed by a committee - that had never actually met in-person.
That was very surprising for a product that can only be described as "mature" in terms of the product development cycle.
Pete
Frankly, it was far smoother and quieter than I had expected it to be so it seemed as though H-D had quelled the vibration and noise issues. It was however, much slower than any other motorcycle I had ever ridden. It was NOT easy to get a away from a clown in a cage - and yet, in my experience, even a humble 400cc Honda commuter bike could easily blow off any car that had ever challenged me and my other bikes (presently a couple of 1970s Yamaha XS650s and a Honda ST1300) are in a totally different league in terms of power and acceleration - while none of them could be called "performance" bikes.
Aside from the on-road performance (which I could charitably characterize only as...stately), what truly surprised me was the extraordinarily poor ergonomics.
Now, I am definitely not a Harley guy, but the thing was cripplingly uncomfortable with a seat that was too low, pegs that were too high and too far forward and bars that required shoulder surgery to reach in a reasonable way. No normally proportioned human being could possibly ride that thing in comfort. Also, the danged gauges were far too small and far away from the rider's eyes to be clearly legible (and NO, I do not normally need glasses to ride my bikes). Finally, the switches were too small and not at all intuitively labelled, so I never seemed to know what would happen when I pushed a button.
Overall, it had the feel of something that had been designed by a committee - that had never actually met in-person.
That was very surprising for a product that can only be described as "mature" in terms of the product development cycle.
Pete
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WVRider
Site Supporter
I'm not a big fan of Harley either and even once said I'd "Never" own one. Never say "Never". Anyway, I will not give up my NT nor the Sport Touring models however, I sure have had a bunch of fun on the 2003 1200 Sportster I picked up from a friend in May this year. I was even called hard core by a fella we met at the Blue Ridge Motorcycle Campground in October when my son and I were in the process of doing our first long trip together, a 2143 mile, 9 day, 8 state "Slaying The Dragon's" tour. He on his Honda Shadow Aero and me on the Harley. Interesting enough, I had just completed an 8 days tour down in the same area on the NT and really wasn't much more uncomfortable. It was actually a blast and we both had the time of our lives. 
The only Harley I'd been interested in test riding would have been the LiveWire. This is due to that I owned and rode a Zero SR for 23,000 miles in 2 years' time. I mainly rode it for commuting to work.
The Zero was not a great bike overall and it was not ready for "Prime Time" and the heavy use I gave it.
The LiveWire only has two charging options, Level -1 Low AC Voltage/Low Current (120VAC @ 15Amps) and Level -3 DC Quick Charging. Level-2 charging is the sweat spot as that's what the Nation-wide charging network is mostly available anywhere. Harley decided on the Level-1 changer out of convenience, just like Zero did at the time I bought my bike. Level 1 charging has extremely long charge times 6-13 hours typically depending on how far down the battery was discharged.
The Level-1 charger and the 80-85 mile range on the Zero limited what I could do or where I could go with it. A long ride out one-way would require an extended stay to recharge it anywhere to just get back home. I figured that LiveWire would give the same issues and range anxiety as the Zero did at $10k more the price. So, I decided not to pursue this notion any further.
Once an electric motorcycle can get the 200-mile range at highways of 75-80 MPH and charge from 0% in an hour or hour-half using the existing Electric vehicle charging network. Then these types of motorcycles are essentially not a viable option for most riders including myself.
Here's my Zero with the optional range extender.
The Zero was not a great bike overall and it was not ready for "Prime Time" and the heavy use I gave it.
The LiveWire only has two charging options, Level -1 Low AC Voltage/Low Current (120VAC @ 15Amps) and Level -3 DC Quick Charging. Level-2 charging is the sweat spot as that's what the Nation-wide charging network is mostly available anywhere. Harley decided on the Level-1 changer out of convenience, just like Zero did at the time I bought my bike. Level 1 charging has extremely long charge times 6-13 hours typically depending on how far down the battery was discharged.
The Level-1 charger and the 80-85 mile range on the Zero limited what I could do or where I could go with it. A long ride out one-way would require an extended stay to recharge it anywhere to just get back home. I figured that LiveWire would give the same issues and range anxiety as the Zero did at $10k more the price. So, I decided not to pursue this notion any further.
Once an electric motorcycle can get the 200-mile range at highways of 75-80 MPH and charge from 0% in an hour or hour-half using the existing Electric vehicle charging network. Then these types of motorcycles are essentially not a viable option for most riders including myself.
Here's my Zero with the optional range extender.
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- Joined
- Jun 16, 2019
- Messages
- 545
- Bike
- 2010 NT700V
An hour and a half is much too long. I'm not about spending my time hanging out at gas stations. I'd consider an EV viable replacement for the gas engine motorcycle when they get a 150-200 mile range and a recharge time of 15 minutes from 0%. And they do it without having to weigh as much as a Goldwing.
Well, you’re not taking into consideration that I had to live with it for 2 years. The 6-14 hours typically needed to fully charge the battery was not an attractive proposition either. My typical commute depleted the battery down to 40% on the average. It took between 4-5 hours with the on-board Level-1 charger to full charge while I was working. So that was not an issue during that time. 1-1.5 hours would’ve been welcome in comparison.
To answer your questions about the weight. Most of the weight was from the batteries, 40% or so. In order to keep the weight down any quick charging modules are not installed into the vehicle. Those units are commercially Third-party. Only the industry standard interfaces are installed on the vehicle.
Typically these quick charging units require 3-phase 480VAC to operate and achieve those quick charge times. The typical residential house has Single-phase 240AVC. Therefore getting one of these DC Quick Chargers installed in your home is out of the question.
I think that I'd rather get one of these instead. SEGWAY Ninebot Electric Dirt Bike MotocrossMeanwhile, HD's announced "Serial1" electric bicycle line is going to be priced as much as the going rate for used NT700Vs.