Test rode a Harley today

NewTo700V · Aug 27, 2020

The Livewire is a $30,000 around-town scooter. 70 miles range highway takes it out of serious riding territory. 30 grand for a bike you can't take out to the country for weekend day rides. That just leaves in town commuting, and 30 grand towards an EV would more likely be spent towards a Tesla. Honestly, I'm not even sure who the demographic is for the Livewire. Those who are ride commuting, there's plenty of far cheaper options. You can go get a used NC700 for like $4K. If you're downtown, you can get a scooter-scooter for even less.

mikesim · Aug 27, 2020

NewTo700V said:
The Livewire is a $30,000 around-town scooter. 70 miles range highway takes it out of serious riding territory. 30 grand for a bike you can't take out to the country for weekend day rides. That just leaves in town commuting, and 30 grand towards an EV would more likely be spent towards a Tesla. Honestly, I'm not even sure who the demographic is for the Livewire. Those who are ride commuting, there's plenty of far cheaper options. You can go get a used NC700 for like $4K. If you're downtown, you can get a scooter-scooter for even less.

Yup!

Mike

Phil Tarman · Aug 27, 2020

Coyote Chris said:
Here is the only Harley I have ever lusted for.

I had never seen one of the flat-twin Harleys until the Tuesday before the NT/ST Rally, when I met Mike Simmons at the motorcycle museum in St. Francis, KS. It was sitting right inside the door. I thought it was a great-looking machine.

harryhendo · Aug 28, 2020

HD should learn from BMW. Like HD's V-Twin, BMW had the Boxer twin for decades, but realized it had to compete with the big Japanese companies by selling inline singles, twins, fours, and even sixes. I am astounded how many inline engined, chain driven BMWs I see. What's the point? People pay thousands more for a bike already perfected decades ago by Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, just for the cachet and status somehow obtained by having a blue and white oval on the side. And they are super fuggly. I'd wager that if HD put a India produced inline twin or triple into an "adventure bike" frame and slapped an HD emblem on the tank, it would sell very well. Again, the cachet. They could include a black HD bandana, leather vest, and a free tattoo with every purchase so that you could still feel tough and part of the pack.

suvcw04 · Aug 28, 2020

You left out an important item. The rubber band for the man bun. (Which USED TO BE a mullet before most of it fell out.)

DirtFlier · Aug 28, 2020

"...I'd wager that if HD put a India produced inline twin or triple into an "adventure bike" frame and slapped an HD emblem on the tank, it would sell very well. Again, the cachet. They could include a black HD bandana, leather vest, and a free tattoo with every purchase so that you could still feel tough and part of the pack..."

At least with customers for their traditional bikes, cruisers and large tourers, there was a definite backlash against anything made in India and badged as H-D. Some of the new Street 500/750s were Made in India but I think most of the US market bikes were made here. It still created a lot of hatred towards those bikes in the dealerships.

One of my riding pals bought a new 500 at a steal since no one wanted it and he loved it. It was quiet, didn't vibrate, and was oil tight. The 500 was only here because H-D needed a 500 for their MSF training classes to replace the Buell Blast which was a real dud and I'm being kind. I don't think H-D ever looked at the 500 or even the 750 as a marketable bike for the US.

Warren · Aug 28, 2020

Not only were the 500 and 750 duds here but I believe they are shutting down their plant in India. I also believe the 500 and 750 were only assembled in the US. I think a lot of the parts came from India. Harley had a strategy that it wanted 50% of its sales to be international primarily due to the falling sales in the US. They found that they were not making much money on the international sales and now the new leadership is bailing on some of those countries primarily in Asia. Unfortunately Harley and I guess their customer base seems to be incapable of accepting anything that's not a big expensive V twin. I guess they made their bed and now they have to lie in it.

DirtFlier · Aug 28, 2020

Yes, my friend's 500 is the only one of those Street twins that I've ever seen on the road. My guess is that riders with those bikes aren't allowed to join the local HOG chapter. They were actually pretty good bikes for the money but they also had lots of cobby detailing.

As you mentioned, people expect a Harley to have a big, hulking, shaking, air-cooled V-twin engine.

NewTo700V · Sep 20, 2020

So a guy actually did a cross country trip on a Livewire, without support. 3500 miles in 15 days. That comes out to 230ish miles a day. 230 miles is 3 hours worth of riding on the NT.

I give him props for pulling this off, but spending a premium of 30K to suffer in wind and ride slow.... I don't get it.

Long-haulin' LiveWire: A 3,500-mile ride on H-D's electric motorcycle - RevZilla

It's not easy being green, but you can ride solo across the country and you're guaranteed to meet a lot of people.

www.revzilla.com

coaster · Sep 20, 2020

DirtFlier said:
Yes, my friend's 500 is the only one of those Street twins that I've ever seen on the road. My guess is that riders with those bikes aren't allowed to join the local HOG chapter. They were actually pretty good bikes for the money but they also had lots of cobby detailing.

As you mentioned, people expect a Harley to have a big, hulking, shaking, air-cooled V-twin engine.

I took a test ride on a street 750 , the bike is built for a person of smaller stature, I am 6' 1" and the bike was just too small for me.

suvcw04 · Sep 22, 2020

DirtFlier said, "They were actually pretty good bikes for the money but they also had lots of cobby detailing. "

Big lugs and lots of welding slag means it was made for a manly man.

Bear · Sep 24, 2020

I tried out the 750 and thought it was a good start. It is a bike that could be improved on if H-D had the motivation. I also tried out the Indian Scout--no comparison. The Scout is a really fine bike--also has a much bigger engine.

suvcw04 · Sep 25, 2020

They're laying off a bunch of employees in India. Milwaukee employees . . . better start updating that resume and practice patty flipping and fry boiling.

Phil Tarman · Sep 25, 2020

Apparently, Harley is pulling out of manufacturing in India completely. Several of the automobile makers have done the same. It sounds like they're all (HD included) are going to China to make their vehicles to sell in Asian markets.

TonyKZ1 · Sep 25, 2020

Yeah, I also demo'd the Street 500 & 750, along with several other of the bigger HD bikes, Fat Bob was one of them that I remember. I thought the Street 500/750 were fine, actually liked them more than the much bigger HD bikes that I rode. They had enough power and were somewhat comfortable. I rode the StreetRod 750 and thought I'd like that one, but really didn't as the footpegs didn't have a auto-return spring installed. As in when you'd hit them with your leg at a stop, they'd move up like most bike's footpegs do, but then when you'd take off, I'd have to quickly push them back down. Anyhow, long story, none of them I rode would make me get up off my old '97 Yamaha Seca II. I was glad to be back on my bike when I left for home.

DirtFlier · Sep 27, 2020

India might be THE biggest market for scooters & motorcycles. A year ago I read a report that motorized 2-wheel sales in India exceeded 5+ million units per year. There are five big players there, including Hero, Bajaj, Honda, etc., and each of them sell more than 1-million units per annum which to me is bleeping amazing. They do have a population of more than 1 BILLION people so the sales potential there is huge.

And as JustPassinThru mentioned, it's certainly not a market for heavyweight, American icon motorcycles because of their road system, demographics and local economies.

Macka · Sep 27, 2020

DirtFlier said:
India might be THE biggest market for scooters & motorcycles. A year ago I read a report that motorized 2-wheel sales in India exceeded 5+ million units per year. There are five big players there, including Hero, Bajaj, Honda, etc., and each of them sell more than 1-million units per annum which to me is bleeping amazing. They do have a population of more than 1 BILLION people so the sales potential there is huge.

And as JustPassinThru mentioned, it's certainly not a market for heavyweight, American icon motorcycles because of their road system, demographics and local economies.

And HD management couldn't see this from a million miles away?? If they are that stupid, they deserve to back out with their tails between their legs.

Macka

Warren · Sep 27, 2020

Harley was not building the heavy weight motorcycles in their plant in India. It’s was the 500 and 750 models.
Harley has not also given up on India. I just read they are in negotiations with Hero where Hero would become a master distributor for Harley in India. No mention exactly what Hero would be distributing for them however.

DirtFlier · Sep 27, 2020

A 750 motorcycle would be considered a monster, heavyweight bike in that venue!

Phil Tarman · Sep 27, 2020

Back early in the summer, when I bought this computer I'm using now, I had quite a few issues (not the computer, just my knowledge of some new technology) and spent several hours getting help from nice Dell techs in India. I think I talked to about five or six different techs, and all of them had access to my computer while we worked through some things. At least 3 or 4 of them saw the screen shot of me with Dudley at the fourth of the Four Corners in Madawaska, ME, and asked me about my bike. They all were amazed at it and all of them mentioned riding scooters. IIRC, two of them rode 50cc scooters and one or two rode slightly bigger ones. All of them wanted a motorcycle.