EV Update

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mikesim

mikesim

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.... and if things weren't bad enough, now this.....



over 60 incidents in October and this just before the busiest airline travel season begins and hardly a day goes by without an EV fire in the news.

Mike
 
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.... and if things weren't bad enough, now this.....



over 60 incidents in October and this just before the busiest airline travel season begins and hardly a day goes by without an EV fire in the news.

Mike
Of course in the news they never mention what the battery is, is it a laptop, ebike pack, phone auxiliary battery, Etc. In the news business, sensationalism sells. They're just giving you a story that lithium ion batteries = dangerous and that's all there is to it. Painting with a pretty broad brush aren't they?

I've been using these lithium batteries for RC flight now for over 15 years, many thousands of flights, and I've never had a single fire incident with them. Of course I monitor them closely and use chargers with a lot of safety features. If people are careless with them, in this instance putting them in a backpack, where they could short against a metal object like a set of keys or something like that, well that's not the battery's fault, sounds more like human error.

Are we really going to get to the point where we're not making progress as a human race, simply because we have some technical hurdles to jump? I sure hope not. I mean, we put people on the moon, surely with enough expertise electric powered thingies such as EV cars will become practical for the masses and we'll be safe. We just need the willpower to do it. Off my soapbox now.
 

ST1100Y

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Are we really going to get to the point where we're not making progress as a human race...
Nah, only history repeating itself...
in Medieval times they lured people out of their money promising to redeem them... indulgence...
now politics fraud them out of their hard earned cash arguing it improves the weather... CO² tax...
 

karl

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The average new car price is at 48 Thousand dollars here in the US currently. Early seventies when I was leaving High School the average New house in town cost less than 20K. Sometimes it seems the only thing that stays the same is change.
 
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I just saw a news article from a school system near where I grew up with a wind generator. They were trying to get rid of it and of course that cost $$. It seems their system had issues and cannot be repaired. With all the technology changing quickly and things not really "settled in or stable" I could see this happen quite a bit. If you are thinking of investing in green energy for long term be careful.

Arknt
 
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It is still way too early for anyone that doesn't have a lot of disposable income. It is still a status symbol to have a Tesla, and the lack of charging infrastructure means that the vehicle is only viable for short drives. My brother drove his Tesla from Massachusetts to Virginia, about 550 miles, in a heavily traveled corridor, and it took hours more than in an ICE vehicle. He had to plan every step of the way to find chargers and wait for a charge at crummy convenience stores. It is one of those new technologies that we'll just have to wait on to mature and become viable.
 
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mikesim

mikesim

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I just read an interesting article about a problem that I had never considered. The author posited that it would take four times as many EV chargers as there are gas pumps here in the US if the EV accounted for a substantial percentage of the vehicles on the road. Think about it. You pull into the gas station to fill up and in ten minutes or less you are gone. Not so with an EV. To get a decent recharge you are probably looking at occupying the charging station for at least four hours. Granted the EV owner will have his personal recharging station at his residence but that will not cover the vehicles that will require recharging on the run.
 

RedLdr1

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Anyone who relies on public Level 2 chargers is looking at a lot of recharge time. But a Level 3 will fully charge most cars in less than an hour and those are what most new charge points have installed. Our Mach-e will fully charge from 20% to 100% on a Level 3 in ~45 minutes per the specs. I haven't tried Level 3 in the Mach-e yet so I can't confirm or deny it.

I would not own an EV without having my own 40Amp Level 2 charger in my garage. Dealing with public chargers, and their multitude of issues, all the time is a hassle I don't need. I did it for about two weeks until my charger was installed and that was plenty for me. That is why I think a EV is questionable solution for folks who cannot have a dedicated charger. But there are those who enjoy the challenge....:nuts: :rolleyes:

Another concept in the EV world is you don't "fill up" you just "top off" charge as much as you can whenever you can. The goal is to have enough of a charge to get you where you are going where you charge again. Great plan until you can't recharge for whatever reason. I "fill up" in my garage but I do plug in to the "free" Level 2 chargers when I go grocery shopping to "top off". Might as well get an hours worth of charge, 30 - 40miles, on their dime.

Worst case scenario I could always charge up my Mach-e using the 7.2Kw Pro Charger built in to my F-150.

I Pass Gas.jpg
 

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Interesting and like most similar ventures, it tends to stretch the truth a bit. When that spokeswoman said "we removed 400 kg" (from the standard van) it was never there because they started with an all-tube frame chassis covered by carbon-fiber bodywork. It did turn in a great time! :)
 
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Reading about the new EV's and the pricing, I got to thinking about the used car market and how many people buy used cars vs new cars. Which brought me to wondering about the used EV market. Little have been mentioned about that in all of the EV hype. What is the depreciation of an EV once it drive off the lot, 3 years after, and at the 5 year mark. And then say the 10 year mark, if they even last 10 years. How do the EV compare to the ICE vehicle in regards to resale, labor cost of repairs, special requirements and equipment during repair and parts availability and cost of such. all of these are consideration that I might have if I was to delve into the EV ownership world. As I and my wife tend to keep out vehicles 8 to 10 years or more.
 
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mikesim

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The big unknown that the EV promoters are loath to talk about is the inevitable battery replacement cost. No one to my knowledge has addressed this in detail. Before I would be willing to buy an EV, there's a lot of questions I would like answered.

Mike
 

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Reading about the new EV's and the pricing, I got to thinking about the used car market and how many people buy used cars vs new cars. Which brought me to wondering about the used EV market. Little have been mentioned about that in all of the EV hype. What is the depreciation of an EV once it drive off the lot, 3 years after, and at the 5 year mark. And then say the 10 year mark, if they even last 10 years. How do the EV compare to the ICE vehicle in regards to resale, labor cost of repairs, special requirements and equipment during repair and parts availability and cost of such. all of these are consideration that I might have if I was to delve into the EV ownership world. As I and my wife tend to keep out vehicles 8 to 10 years or more.
Ya. all that PLUS the effects of road salt and winter (cold weather) driving on the electrical systems and battery life and performance. Neither salt or cold are friendly to batteries or electrical systems.

Of the friends I have around here only one has an EV. He is a very smart guy (an engineer) and is so far very happy with his EV. Several others have hybrids and like them.

I never plan to make any money on owning a vehicle, but l don’t want to lose too much either. I keep vehicles 10-20 years so maintenance is a big issue especially since cars are harder to work on and I’m getting too old to do all that stuff.
 

RedLdr1

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Reading about the new EV's and the pricing, I got to thinking about the used car market and how many people buy used cars vs new cars. Which brought me to wondering about the used EV market. Little have been mentioned about that in all of the EV hype. What is the depreciation of an EV once it drive off the lot, 3 years after, and at the 5 year mark. And then say the 10 year mark, if they even last 10 years. How do the EV compare to the ICE vehicle in regards to resale, labor cost of repairs, special requirements and equipment during repair and parts availability and cost of such. all of these are consideration that I might have if I was to delve into the EV ownership world. As I and my wife tend to keep out vehicles 8 to 10 years or more.
Since the EV used market is relatively new, except Tesla, there isn't much info to go on yet to answer your pricing / resale questions. And unfortunately Tesla is a "cult car" and just one person, Elon Musk, can make decisions that can really skew everything. He royally screwed his customers when he cut pricing a few months ago which left some folks forever upside down in a virtually new car. When I traded in my Hyundai Kona EV there where only three used ones in the Mannheim database to use as a reference. It's hard to determine a value when you have that small of a sample.

As far as scheduled service our Mach-e only requires tire rotations and a visual inspection every 10K miles or 12 months. Every 3 years a Brake Service changing out the brake fluid. At 10 years, or 150K miles, change the transmission fluid. At 200K miles change the battery coolant. I did not purchase a Ford Service Plan on our Mach-e. ;)

The labor rate for a EV repair is the same as ICE. The only difference is you need a certified EV tech versus anyone on an ICE vehicle. I'm sure there are some specialized tools / test sets that are required for an EV. Any certified dealer will have those on hand. Parts availability will vary by brand and model. I've known the Parts Manager at my Ford dealer for a long time and he has assured me it is no different than on ICE vehicles. Keep in mind the vast majority of the parts interchange with ICE cars in the case of Ford and Hyundai. FWIW a friend of mine owns an independent automotive repair shop. He has Zero intentions of working on any EV's if it involves the drive train. Since he already won't work on any German cars, due the expense of the diagnostics software, that doesn't surprise me. He will retire before that decision becomes an issue for his business.

From my own research I would not own a EV for more than five model years. On a car with a 10 year battery life getting out at the 50% point seems to be the best move. For those same reasons I would not buy a used EV. As the market matures it will be worth reviewing those time frames.

The big unknown that the EV promoters are loath to talk about is the inevitable battery replacement cost. No one to my knowledge has addressed this in detail.
That question is common on the EV forums. And it can be estimated by looking at the costs to replace a Prius hybrid battery. A ten year old Prius that needs a new traction battery isn't worth the cost of a replacement battery cost much less the replacement labor fees. I'd expect the same to be true in the EV world. Ford warrants the EV battery and components for 8 years or 100K miles. Some manufacturers, like Hyundai, go 10 years on the battery and drive train. After the warranty expires it is a slippery slope to a vehicle that probably isn't worth repairing. But then not a lot of ten year old ICE vehicles are worth a new engine or transmission.
 

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"...I keep vehicles 10-20 years so maintenance is a big issue especially since cars are harder to work on and I’m getting too old to do all that stuff..." JungleJim

Yup, agree completely. I worked on my previous Accord but when I bought my 2016 Accord (used ex-company car), I decided that my days of crawling under cars was over. I've been crawling under cars since I was 16 years old so figure I'd had enough!
 
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I worked on my previous Accord but when I bought my 2016 Accord (used ex-company car), I decided that my days of crawling under cars was over. I've been crawling under cars since I was 16 years old so figure I'd had enough!
Same here, I've done some maintenance work myself on my 2018 Accord recently to save some $$, replaced serpentine belt and all the brake pads, it's easy enough to raise one corner of the car, but the car sits so low its impractical for me to attempt to raise it for oil changes. Getting too old for laying on my back underneath a car, I'd rather sit in the dealer's waiting area, drinking their coffee, while they change the oil and rotate tires. Nice that they have a Kuerig too ☕
 

DirtFlier

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So far, my 2016 Accord has only required oil changes as dictated by the % of life meter on the dash but nothing else so I get the oil changed about every 6-months. The dealership also rotates the tires - a home job I truly hated! And they give me a written readout on tire & brake pad condition, plus the car gets a quickie car wash. The bill is usually around $50.

During a few of those normal services, they updated software for various glitches that never effected my driving with one exception. During one hot summer when towing our bikes to Colorado, the engine would die on slow coast down but always restarted. Honda eventually found a software gitch and resolved it but it took a year to solve that mystery. It only happened that one hot day in Colorado Springs and never again although I wondered about it for a long time.

Anyhow, it's nice to read a book on my Kindle or scroll through stuff on my laptop while waiting for 45-min at the dealership. It only has around 77k miles on it since I don't drive it that much.
 
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