OP
OP
I am looking forward to see thing the west this Sept in all its yellow glory!
Frosty and I.
The NT and the open road....
- Thread starter Coyote Chris
- Start date
Frosty and I.
Chris you are not going to get elected governor or president with that as your campaign pledge.
Brad
I thought there were other reasons he wasn’t popular. I guess I will add gas taxes to the list
Phil Tarman
Site Supporter
When we compare our gas prices with the Europe and Australia, it's obvious that there's been a decision made to artificially suppress them. I tend to agree with Chris that our gas taxes need to be higher and that the revenue from that should be used to rebuild our infrastructure. It's in terrible shape in most states.
That would be OK if 1. That is were the revenue went to, and 2. that the spending on said infrastructure was done smartly, with quality in mind, and with out kickbacks. Why can't we build a road that is smooth and can last the winter like in Germany. I have seen it, most contract people are very uneducated about the contracts that they let. Only concerned with lowest bidder and not so much quality or process. Also lack of supervision of said contracts. Been there seen it. Call me cynical in my old age.
Phil Tarman
Site Supporter
Unfortunately, I have to agree with what Chuck says. Quality needs to be drastically updated. Automatically going with the low bidder sure doesn't contribute to that.
OP
OP
I actually have to agree with Phil for a change and Chuck. If a contractor demonstrates quality work in the past, they get prefference over those that show slipshod work. Low bid on face masks doesnt work. It doesnt work on public safety either. Graft is rampant in WA state as far as roads. We have the best politicians that money can buy. I wont bore you with the details. Anyone check out the price of crude oil on the market today? NOW is the time to raise the federal gas tax. Ike built the interstate system. WE can fix it.
OP
OP
I know. Lord help us if we went back to the days of JFK, and Ike, and the space program. "Ask not what your country can do for you...." is most unpopular.
OP
OP
THIS just in! Spy photo of the new NT800v. Note real pannier latches. Drive shaft. Maintenance free valves and fully adjustable handle bars, shown in lowered position.
NoNTnow
Guest
Hmm, that reminds of a comment my Senior Drill Sergeant made many years ago. "Always remember everything you are taking in to combat was selected because the supplier was the low bidder...plan accordingly."
Not to throw a monkey wrench into everyone's opinion, but what the hell, it's never stopped me before :LOL: . It is not the contractor that designs the road, he just builds the road to the engineer's specification. If you have ever seen an engineering spec for a highway it is quite detailed. The engineer specifies the base, i.e (base shall be constructed with a 6" base of compacted 2 minus aggregate, then overlayed with a 3" base of compacted 1" minus limestone. Asphalt overlay shall consist of a single layer of 4" asphalt consisting of no less that 75% crushed limestone with a 25% asphaltic substrate. Those are specs that I just pulled out of the air for illustration so don't quote me on those. If you are interested a detailed spec on approved road construction specs can be found here https://www.astm.org/Standards/road-and-paving-standards.html.
The point being that it is not the contractor that is responsible for highway longevity, they just bid on and build the road to the spec they are given. Before the engineer signs off on the completed project, random core samples are taken to ensure that the contractor has followed the bid spec.
In the engineer's defense, he is compelled to design a road that is both useful and economical. Conceivably a road could be designed that would last forever however no one would be willing to pay the price to do so. As in everything, there is a trade-off that must be considered vis a vis cost vs benefit So while it is easy to sit back and criticize the condition of our roads, it is not as easy it it appears.
Mike
I think its the large trucks that cause most of the damage. To bad they can't do more with the railroads. Get the fright back on the trains and leave the highways for the cars.
Yes, the big trucks are the worst offenders when it comes to highway damage. Theoretically, that is accounted for in the higher user fees the big trucks are assessed but somehow I don't think it covers the wear. Railroads could contribute much more in hauling freight however these days everybody wants their stuff yesterday and the one thing railroads ain't is speedy.
Mike
Mikesim, Have your ridden in Colorado lately? I know I know, it's the winter freeze and thaw cycle that is hard on roads here. Tell that to my vehicle suspensions and my back. That excuse only goes so far. Design the road specs that take that into consideration and then find a contract office that will award it to a contractor that will build to that spec. And follow up with honest non kickback inspections. I wonder why Kansas, New Mexico, Nebraska, Wyoming, and Utah roads are a lot smoother and in better shape than Colorado's.
OP
OP
execution of the contract is a factor. Substandard work is always an issue. Design is important of course...but killing the politics and the payoffs and shoddy inspection is important. The hard to understand thing for many is that the money is THERE. It just needs to be harvested from those that use the highways. There are people that pay $50,000 for a pickup truck but scream like little girls when the gas tax goes up 2 cents. "Its all about me" why did you charge ME two cents more a gallon? .....we need to be building roads for tomorrow....not for yesterday. Raise the gas tax. Reward contractors who do good work on time. Design roads for the 21st century. The money is THERE. Just harvest it. (as an aside, Les Schwaub pays off WA state congressmen/women so that they dont outlaw studded tires...those useless leftovers from the last century...that tear the heck out of our roads.....
www.spokesman.com
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Getting There: Lose the studded tires
Another hysterical Chicken Little has joined the chorus against studded tires: the Washington State Department of Transportation.
www.spokesman.com
No Chuck, I haven't ridden much in Colorado lately, but I'd love to! The point of my post was to point out that the problem with our roads is more complicated than shoddy workmanship on the part of the contractor. It is also not a problem that can be fixed by merely throwing more money at it, although it sounds tempting. Increasing fuel taxes sounds easy but remember the people have to approve it but before they do they must have confidence that it will be money well spent. Further, our ability to tax is finite and there are many competing purposes for our tax dollars. The very definition of economics is "the allocation of scarce resources that have alternative uses", and at this point, tax dollars are scarce.
Mike