Troubles of getting it in neutral when hot + stationary...

"...When the bike is not moving, it will only go into neutral when shifting from 2nd to 1st or vise versa...HondaFan"

Nearly all motorcycles use what the car racers call a "sequential transmission." This means one movement of the shifter will only proceed to the next gear or neutral, in either direction.
 
Waaaaayyy back in the day, the engineers at Royal Enfield solved the problem. On the side cover with the shift lever was an additional lever, the neutral finder. When you came to a stop depress the lever with your toe and voila! you were in neutral. If my remembery is correct, an Italian bike (?) also had this feature.

Mike
 
Shadowjack said:
This symptom used to occur in my old 1200 Goldwing, and I knew it was time for an oil change. Always improved after that.
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On the ST1100 clunky gear changes are sign of worn hub dampers... diagnosed the same last year on the NT700 I got for my GF at a dealer; the PO had them never changed...
 
FWIW: after replacing the clutch and changing to fully synth oil the issue has resolved...
I somehow have the previously used semi-synth under suspicion...
 
And... after the recent oil change (10W30) the issue has again raised his head... fine getting neutral while rolling, once engine is fully hot and being stationary, you've a hard time finding neutral...
And last Friday, during the annual MOT inspection, the bloke there had just those difficulties... ;)
No issue though, he was happy having an "un-tinkered" bike there, she passed with flying colors... :cool:
Still interesting why the clutch obviously drags just so slightly once the engine is hot that it jams up the gears... 🤔
 
Hondafan said:
Kawasaki has an automatic neutral locator. I had one on a 2008 KLR, and there is one on my Versys 300. When the bike is not moving, it will only go into neutral when shifting from 2nd to 1st or vise versa. A simple mechanism that works flawlessly and gives no problems.
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Except when the rpms are up during a cold start warm up. After it idles down all is good, And works good. Both of my Versys do this. So Before a cold start I shift into natural and then start the bike.
 
I would make a quick check of the clutch cable, at the transmission end, and make sure you have free play in the cable. You could have the lever adjusted at the handlebars, but a slightly binding cable can keep the cable tight at the transmission end causing the clutch to drag a little.

Cliff
 
cliffh said:
I would make a quick check of the clutch cable, at the transmission end, and make sure you have free play in the cable. You could have the lever adjusted at the handlebars, but a slightly binding cable can keep the cable tight at the transmission end causing the clutch to drag a little.
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Cable was replaced last year and properly adjusted, plus all worked fine before, the only thing changed is a new filter and oil... 🤔
 
ST1100Y said:
Cable was replaced last year and properly adjusted, plus all worked fine before, the only thing changed is a new filter and oil... 🤔
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Did you by chance use a different oil than you normally use or any type of additive? Is my remembery faulty of didn't you just replace the clutch discs on the bike? This was your girlfriends NT, right? If the freeplay is correct, this is truly a puzzlement.
:confused1:
Mike

Sorry, I reread the earlier posts and answered my own questions. Thankfully though, it was a relief to find that my remembery isn't totally gone., but the puzzlement is still there. If you are certain that this problem occurred immediately after the oil change, I would change the oil and filter once again with a different brand of oil and see what happens.
 
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Well, the issue comes and goes...
Fresh oil, all fine, a few months later the "can't get into neutral once engine is hot" reappears... especially when stuck in urban traffic during roaring summer temps...
Fine in cold weather, fine the first 20~30 minutes of riding, starts to develop once you get stuck in traffic...
Had a suspicion about warping plates, but since I've already replaced both, friction and steel plates that shouldn't be it...
Shouldn't a hot, hence thin oil oil give less friction there? Or does it "run off", exposing the contact patches...
 
FWIW over the decades I have had this issue on many bikes intermittently. Cable and hydrolic. The roll technique works. And being gentle. I am running 15w 40 RottellA this trip on FJR and noticed it a few times.
 
This is an old song and the easiest solution - at least for me - is to ensure that the transmission is in 1st when I roll to a stop, then a gentle nudge upwards with my foot and it's in Neutral. This is more difficult to do if you're in 3rd or 4th when you come to a stop.
 
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DirtFlier said:
This is an old song and the easiest solution - at least for me - is to ensure that the transmission is in 1st when I roll to a stop, then a gentle nudge upwards with my foot and it's in Neutral. This is more difficult to do if you're in 3rd or 4th when you come to a stop.
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Actually, I tried rolling to a stop in first and second on my spearfish trip after this thread started and no issues. Tried multiple times. None either when I got home off the FJR and on the XT.Have yet to try the VFR
 
DirtFlier said:
...the transmission is in 1st when I roll to a stop, then a gentle nudge upwards with my foot and it's in Neutral...
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Which is exactly what won't work once the engine, hence oil and clutch mechanism has gotten really hot (like while being stuck in urban traffic)...
Neither from 1st, nor 2nd...
What works is letting the bike surge forward a bit, and instantly nudge the shifter once depressing the clutch lever fully again... if you have the space avail...
 
Hmmmm... as long as my clutch has been properly adjusted, I have never experienced this problem.

Mike
 
JQL said:
My clutch was replaced at about 170,000 km and the gearbox problem "miraculously" disappeared.
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Yep, new clutch cures it... for a while...
Maybe something on the lifter mechanism has a slight wear, heat-expansion on the case/parts will then cause the culprit... we're talking fraction of a millimeter there...
 
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