The Definitive Sidecar Thread....

Phil Tarman

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Re: Adding a sidecar

I talked to a guy in Denver who had a sidecar on a Vespa and he said it was slow and he'd never go on the freeway with it, but that it worked just fine on surface streets. His usual passenger was his dog.
 

Bear

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Re: Adding a sidecar

There is a guy in the Lewiston area who does sidecars. He did my friend's Gold Wing. I will have him fit my CB550K with a Velorex. The other 550 will go the Cafe route. I'll have to get another garage built.
 

Bear

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Re: Adding a sidecar

Two wheel drive would be tough to do on a chain drive bike. A couple of cinder blocks in the sidecar stabilize things on slick roads.
 
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I have a little experience with sidecars. I rescued, restored and rode 28 Ural sidecars, single-wheel drive, and 2WD Patrols, Gear-up. Only used 2wd twice by, with the exception of the older Sportsman model, the Patrol and Gearup are direct drive, don't turn well at speed in 2WD, they want to go straight when you want to turn. I only had two that gave me any grief, they were badly neglected, we fixed these and made them reliable. Ural reliability relies on knowing your bike, being willing to actively look after it, if you treat it like crap, it will fail, if you take care and ride it like you have a brain they are reliable. Everyone I bought, restored, and rode daily like the family car, never broke and left me stranded. They are not fast, but they are fast enough to get you where you are going in style. The Ural is purpose-built to be a sidecar rig from day one, it is far less of a design compromise than any other rig you can build, and I've built a few. I had three Kawasaki KLR650 sidecar rigs, two I build, one with a Sputnik cargo hack, one with a regular sputnik body and a third with a DMC M72C fake ural tub, quality workmanship is sub-par, but were fun while they lasted, sputnik sidecar are to flimsy, to light. I avoid tall dualsport bikes these days, they just don't corner well, they tend to roll in the turns, no matter what you do with the suspension. I built two with DMC leading link forks which made steering easier but lacked durability, were outrageously overpriced, and damn ugly, not like the Unit Leading link forks from England which blend well with the bike. I had DMC build my Kawasaki W800 Ural sidecar rig, first ride the custom subframe they built, attached the forward upper strut to the sheet metal ABS mount, at 80 MPH the sidecar mounts came loose, just stroke of luck I made it to the shoulder of the highway before I lost the sidecar. The first rule of sidecar survival, do your homework, research the builder, never use a builder because they are the only one in your area, not worth the risk.

I built a 2017 Honda Goldwing with a used Hannigan GTL sidecar, with an electric lift seat, and electric camber adjustment, electric lean. These guys were great to work with, we bought the upgraded mount designs to fit our older GTL, totally impressive workmanship, never had a mount work lose, tracked straight as an arrow, the easy steer triple trees made it 2 finger steering, amazing, up to 120 MPH and 30 MPH crosswinds, tracked straight

The tug, bike, doesn't need to be big, but preferably 650cc is my lower limit to be practical for freeway use. The W800 was a perfect tug, fuel-injected, relatively low center of gravity, out-of-the-box perfect suspension, and enough torque to make the weight of the sidecar disappear, and a good open frame to attach mounts. I don't recommend bikes with a lot of plastics, it is common to cut holes for the mounts to pass through the plastics to attach to the frame, when the plastics are installed it's impossible to do pre-trip mount inspections, loose mount spell disaster at freeway speed and tight mountain turns where you need the most control over your bike.

Done right, yes they are different, don't handle like a two-wheel bike, you don't put your feet down at the stop sign, in America you slow more for right-hand turns, the sidecar lags behind a little when you accelerate and tries to pass you when you brake hard, just a little, it can be as safe and reliable as any motorcycel if you take care of it and drive like you have a brain. The sidecar carried my granddaughter who slept through most of the ride, to awake at the mountain top rest stop to run around like a crazy person, to fall asleep en route to the next stop for lunch. The wife and the dog love the sidecar for many years, now the dog outweighs the sidecar, don't tell him I said that, he's sensitive. It carried my camping gear from Mexico to Alaska, beer to the barbeque, carried gallons of water back to camp on the water runs, even did domestic duty grocery shopping, but mainly it was an escape to the country for us.

Got a call the other day, Jay said, he enjoyed the Ural Troyka I sold him 4 years ago, but he was ready to move on to other interests and asked if I knew someone who would be interested in buying it, it's now living in my garage undergoing restoration, looking forward to another ride with an old friend.
 
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I have an '18 Ural Gear Up that I got so my wife and I could take our dog on long rides. It is a great bike, they are made from the ground up to be side car rigs. Very different from a regular MC because they do not lean, weird until you get used to it. Mine has reverse and can be shifted into 2 wheel drive so the sidecar wheel becomes a drive wheel too. Lots of fun.
 

Phil Tarman

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I've always wanted a Ural. But I'd probably be riding it by myself and since I can't do even basic mechanical things any more, I don't think it's for me (even though there's a dealer in Ft. Collins).
 

Bear

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We have a Ural dealer here in Corinna, ME. I looked at the Ural. They modernized the engine (Now has FI). Overall finish is poor. I found the welds both on the bike and sidecar to be substandard. They would be what I would expect on a repaired piece of farm machinery.
 
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Interesting comment Bear, the welds on my Ural all look great. The bike is much less refined than the new offerings out of Japan and Europe but that is kind of the allure. Metal fenders, metal fairing, metal sidecar tub, very little plastic is refreshing IMHO. My GPZ Turbo, KLR and NT700 have a lot of plastic, the Ural, not so much.
 

mikesim

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According to our local Ural dealer who has been with them since almost day one, the first few years they were imported, the bikes were pitiful. He said that Ural thought that they could get by selling the same bikes that they had previously sold to the Iron Curtain countries. Their US importer, dealers and customers made it plain to the factory that if they wanted to stay relevant in the US market they had to up their game. This they have done over time. Apparently Ural is a fairly small concern with a relatively small budget so improvements have come much slower than some would like but they have to stay within their resources.

Mike
 

Bear

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According to our local Ural dealer who has been with them since almost day one, the first few years they were imported, the bikes were pitiful. He said that Ural thought that they could get by selling the same bikes that they had previously sold to the Iron Curtain countries. Their US importer, dealers and customers made it plain to the factory that if they wanted to stay relevant in the US market they had to up their game. This they have done over time. Apparently Ural is a fairly small concern with a relatively small budget so improvements have come much slower than some would like but they have to stay within their resources.

Mike
The Ural I looked at in Corinna was two years old. I hope they keep the improvements coming. I guess that the Honda and Yamaha finishes and welds have me spoiled. I,particularly, pay attention to welds because I work on older racing bicycles. Steel bikes rust from the inside out on their frames--and the tell tale signs are usually that the rust weeps out at the welds. I have seen some real classics destroyed that way.
Alex
 

mikesim

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The Ural I looked at in Corinna was two years old. I hope they keep the improvements coming. I guess that the Honda and Yamaha finishes and welds have me spoiled. I,particularly, pay attention to welds because I work on older racing bicycles. Steel bikes rust from the inside out on their frames--and the tell tale signs are usually that the rust weeps out at the welds. I have seen some real classics destroyed that way.
Alex
Alex, I have a ~30 year old, Made in USA, Trek mountain bike with a CroMoly frame that has some of the most beautiful welds I have every seen.

Mike
 

Bear

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Mike,
I would expect nothing less from a "Made in USA" Trek. They make fine bicycles.
 

Warren

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I still prefer a brazed lug bicycle frame to a welded one. Not that it’s stronger just that it looks better.
 

Phil Tarman

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I still prefer a brazed lug bicycle frame to a welded one. Not that it’s stronger just that it looks better.
My daughter-in-law has a Rivendell Rambouilllet that she got in the late '80s that has absolutely breath-taking lugs. My last road-bike was a Bridgestone RB-T that had a lugged frame, too. Can't beat 'em for looks.
 

Bear

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Right now I have a 70 Univega Comp., an 80's David Scott Centurion, a 2004 Eddie Merkx "Premium", and am currently restoring a 1970's Fuji Touring. My current touring bike is a 2000 Cannondale. I like hand braized lugged frames a lot.
 

Phil Tarman

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Right now I have a 70 Univega Comp., an 80's David Scott Centurion, a 2004 Eddie Merkx "Premium", and am currently restoring a 1970's Fuji Touring. My current touring bike is a 2000 Cannondale. I like hand braized lugged frames a lot.
Right now I've only got a Trek FX-1 fitness bike with a kid's 24" mountain bike crankset with pedals at about the 80mm point on the already short arms, but I haven't ridden it that way yet. I'm planning/hoping to be able to start riding it when/if the weather gets a little cooler.

I started riding on a Sears (built by Puch) that we'd bought for my daughter when she was in the 5th grade. The salesman had said, "She'll grow into it." She never did. I took the drop bars and the narrow seat off when I started riding. After a couple hundred miles I figured out why road bikes have drop bars and narrow saddles and put them back on. I rode that 50-lb bike for 1500 miles and six months before buying a Fuji Sagres in '86. It was a 12-speed but I figured out that it's crank would take a 3rd chainring and it became an 18-speed. In '93, I traded it on a Bridgestone RB-T which I loved. I also had an '87 Specialized Rock Hopper (hard-tail and no suspension fork) and a '94 Burley Duet. I put about 30,000 miles on bicycles before I started riding mototcycles. I miss them and hope I can get back to riding again.
 

Warren

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I got into adult bicycling during the bike boom of the 70’s. Rode then for 20 years. I lived in a small town in Michigan at the time. I sold my first motorcycle and bought a Fuji Special Road Racer. After several other bikes I bought a custom made one from Matt Assenmacher. He had a small custom bike shop in a small town in Michigan. He learned to make custom frames when he apprenticed with Bob Jackson in England. He still makes custom bikes today. Once I moved from Michigan to St. Louis I stopped riding bicycles. It was just to congested to ride locally. I ended up getting back into motorcycles and have been riding them ever since. I still have the Assenmacher and occasionally ride it but not like I used to. I just can’t seemed to want to part with it. I am sure when I am gone my kids will sell it off for far less than it’s worth.
 

Bear

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I would like to get back to riding my Merkx Premium. This bike is made of Scandium (a super light alloy) It was built by Russ Denney in San Diego. Russ is a Native American who studied under Masi. My bike is #0003. It was built for Labor Power Racing--a group of lawyers who had a Criterion Team. It was built in 1994. I did not go with the specified Campy Grouppo, but built it my way--Ritchie Wheels, Shimano 105 Grouppo, Modolo Bars, King Headset, Truvativ triple crankset, Dimension Seatpost, Selle Italia Seat, Look KEO Pedals, and Michelin Tyres. I did change the fork from an all out racing fork to a little milder Easton Carbon Fiber Fork. It is my favorite. It is fast and handles like a sports car.
 

mikesim

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Thanks Alex! I always enjoy learning of other guys obsessions where they fritter away dough. Make me feel better about my bass boat, fishin' gear, Nikon cameras, mountain bike, hand tools, golf clubs, RV and motorcycles. The toughest one to rationalize to momma was the motorcycle though. Even though we all have different passions our obsession with toys appears to be universal.

:thumb:

Mike
 
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